ECL of this Race?

[Ferrix]

I am working with two close friends on creating a campaign world. We've toned this race down already so help me out here. There won't be much flavor text, sorry, lacking time.

Ky'Atrah
The Ky'Atrah are the greater Pantherian race upon the world, they often stand over six feet in height and weigh around 200 lbs. Their bodies are covered with fur of varying patterns and colours.

Stat Mod: +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis
Favored Class: Barbarian
Natural Attacks: 2 Claws (1d4/1d4)
Special Abilities: Pounce (as stated in the MM but only w/natural weapons), Improved Grab (both claws must hit), Rake (when pouncing or having struck with the improved grab/grapple the Ky'Atrah may make two more claw attacks with their hind legs for 1d4 damage at their normal claw attack bonus), Low-Light Vision
Skills: +2 Balance, +2 Listen

 

[Crothian]

Welcome to the boards!!

I'd say +2. Pounce, improved grab, and rake are all great abilities.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'd say +1; pounce is excellent, but when it's limited to two (poor) natural weapons I feel better about it.

 

[Spatzimaus]

It's tough. The natural weapons will be great for a few levels, but once you reach the point where most enemies have damage reduction, they'll be useless. Heck, even at level 1 a 1d4 weapon isn't that great. Unless, of course, you let Monks use the claws for their "unarmed" attacks, in which case there's the issue of natural vs. BAB progression.

You didn't list a Favored Class, either.

All of their racial abilities seem tied to their claws, which become useless after a few levels. At low levels this makes for an ECL of at least +1; like Crothian said, Pounce/Rake/Improved Grab is great. After a few levels, though, they're just a furry Half-Orc. Improved Grab is the only one I'd use after that point, and it's probably not worth setting aside your +3 greatsword.

Here's my suggested change:
> Stats: +2 STR, -2 INT, -2 WIS
> Favored Class: Monk (maybe Ranger?)
> Skills: +2 Balance, +2 Listen
> Low-light vision
> Any Ky'Atrah of WIS 13 or higher may expend a Feat to gain the Limited Scent ability. This functions as the DMG Scent ability except that all ranges are 1/3 listed and DCs are increased by 5.
> A Ky'Atrah has retractable claws that may be used for unarmed attacks. These do 1 extra damage and change the attack's damage type to Piercing; however, the character is still not considered "armed" when making unarmed attacks. (The Improved Unarmed Strike Feat is still needed to avoid AoOs.) The claws also provide a +2 bonus to grapple checks when extended. Extending or retracting claws is a free action.

At this point I'd say it's a strong ECL 0 race. If you really want ECL +1, give them +2 DEX and an attack bonus against Vermin or Animals or something.

 

[Ferrix]

I'm not exactly new to the boards, I just read and rarely ever post. Rarely ever post, used to be on this when it was over on Eric's site from almost the beginning. I think I'll use the ECL +1 modifier as that is what I figured. Wonder what I could do to power them down to +0 but keep the special abilities.

Listed favor class above in the original post.

 

[Ferrix]

> Any Ky'Atrah of WIS 13 or higher may expend a Feat to gain the Limited Scent ability. This functions as the DMG Scent ability except that all ranges are 1/3 listed and DCs are increased by 5.
> A Ky'Atrah has retractable claws that may be used for unarmed attacks. These do 1 extra damage and change the attack's damage type to Piercing; however, the character is still not considered "armed" when making unarmed attacks. (The Improved Unarmed Strike Feat is still needed to avoid AoOs.) The claws also provide a +2 bonus to grapple checks when extended. Extending or retracting claws is a free action.

At this point I'd say it's a strong ECL 0 race. If you really want ECL +1, give them +2 DEX and an attack bonus against Vermin or Animals or something.

We wanted them to have natural weapons instead of unarmed attack bonus. We wanted the race to have interesting abilities over lots of stat bonuses. Most of our base races are modified and we also have the lesser pantherian race, the power level of the races is probably slightly higher than the PHB races. We also have worked on racial feats for each race, at level one all characters revieve a bonus racial feat that can do things sort of like the limited scent feat or what not. But that's for another post.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Most of our base races are modified and we also have the lesser pantherian race, the power level of the races is probably slightly higher than the PHB races.

In that case, considering their favored class, I'd remove the Wisdom penalty and make them ECL +1.

 

[Xylix]

I would hate to give this race a +1 EL without something that carries over to high levels, but if you are only dealing with low character levels they should have +1 EL, if you are dealing with 3rd + characters, especially if starting them around that level the EL will hurt the player that takes the race tremendously. The natural attacks are essentially useless once you hit around 6th level.

If you stuck in some Natural armor, or a few other little bonuses +1 Natural armor, +2 Hide, and +2 spot you would be fine giving it EL+1.

 

[Technik4]

My .02 is that you allow this race to take the following as "racial feats": improved grab, pounce (with any and all weapons - steep requirement), rake.

Then you can have everything youve got (natural attacks, stat bonuses, skill bonuses, and low light). Maybe give them 1 free racial feat at first level so they can choose if theyd rather pounce, grab, or rake.

Technik

 

[Kyramus]

here are the changes I would make and keep this guy ECL 0

Ky'Atrah
The Ky'Atrah are the greater Pantherian race upon the world, they often stand over six feet in height and weigh around 200 lbs. Their bodies are covered with fur of varying patterns and colours.

Stat Mod: +2 Str, -2 Int
Favored Class: Ranger
Natural Attacks: 2 Claws (1d4/1d4)
Special Abilities: Pounce (as stated in the MM but only w/natural weapons), Improved Grab (both claws must hit), Rake (when pouncing or having struck with the improved grab/grapple the Ky'Atrah may make a rake attack with their hind legs for 1d6 damage at their normal claw attack bonus), Low-Light Vision
bonus feat: alertness

If we are basing this on a Panther. Panthers are known for tracking their prey, not berserking/raging. Only the females do that and only when protecting young.

the +2 Strength and -2 Int was about even. It was either giving the Pantheran better strength or better dex. Wisdom is needed for wilderness lore, so that is why it was removed.

Changing the hind attack to one roll and making it 1d6 instead of 2d4 lessens it's power, but still usefull, considering strength bonus is added it is still a formidable weapon at low levels.

Alertness is because of how the panthers are. Ever tried to sneak up on a cat? it almost always knows you are coming.