Eladrin vs. Elves

[Irda Ranger]

See, I'm in the opposite cap. I dislike the notion of "sub-races" entirely. If the races are different, I think they should be different, both flavor-wise and mechanically. Otherwise, I see no point to treating them as different races at all; they're just different cultures within the same race.

Ditto.

And as others have mentioned, there's no evidence that Eladrin will be "sylvan", as the OP contends.

I like that we now have a tight "expectation" of what a "standard" elf will act like. We can still have characters that deviate from the norm, but not we've just a "normal" elf to compare him too.

We've had the same problem with gnomes for a long time, starting with the 'great divide' instigated by the Tinker Gnomes in DL. AD&D 2e and 3e was never clear on whether gnomes were 'fey naturalists' or 'mad alchemists.' I guess rather than clear that up, they were removed from the PHB entirely, which is fine with me.

If I were doing some campaign conversions:
Dragonlance: Qualinesti, Sylvanesti = Eladrin; Kagonesti = Elf
Forgotten Realms: Grey/Gold Elf = Eladrin; Moon/Wood Elf = Elf

I am neutral at this point on whether I like that Elves and Eladrin are related, however distantly. I would prefer that Eladrin were "sort of outsiders" while Elves (and Drow) are "sort of fey."

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Forgotten Realms: Grey/Gold Elf = Eladrin; Moon/Wood Elf = Elf

I am neutral at this point on whether I like that Elves and Eladrin are related, however distantly. I would prefer that Eladrin were "sort of outsiders" while Elves (and Drow) are "sort of fey."

This kind of raises an interesting point related to the issues here.

What the hell are they going to do with elves in existing settings? For new settings, the Elf/Eladrin divide ain't no thang, but for something like the FR, where the whole Grey/Gold Elf and Moon/Wood Elf deals are pretty well-established, well, that's a bit trickier?

Perhaps they'll just provide stats for the individual races in the FR main book, and ignore the Elf/Eladrin deal, or perhaps they have some giant retcon that Grey/Gold Elves were Eladrins all along, or that by 145X realms-time, they've renamed themselves to that. A bit wierd either way, really.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Is there any reason why the specific settings should not simply override the defaults. In FR I think it should be left alone. They are all elves and Eladrin do not feature. Why fix what is not broken.

Now, they have also said that race effects occur through out the characters career but if that is racially split in the default (Eladrin/Elves) there is no reason in FR that it could not be Sun/Moon Elves. The mechanics may be the same but the justification is fluff.

Ebberon is a bit trickier since the Elves are nor are they sylvian nor are they high arcanists, they are horse calvary with a tendency to take ancestor worship to necromantic levels but without the nasty side effects that usually entails. That said the fey on Ebberon exist on a seperate plane that interacts with the prime, I could see more changes to Ebberon from this. A New type of Elf different from the elves of Arenal and the Eladrin both linked to the fey but by different routes.

 

[Banshee16]

Has been, for ~3,000 years.



You say this like it's a long time.

Given I had just learned to talk (I think) when it was first made a tempter devil in the MM, it's a long time to me

Maybe not to my grandfather, but...

It's all a matter of perspective.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

I like that we now have a tight "expectation" of what a "standard" elf will act like. We can still have characters that deviate from the norm, but not we've just a "normal" elf to compare him too.

We've had the same problem with gnomes for a long time, starting with the 'great divide' instigated by the Tinker Gnomes in DL. AD&D 2e and 3e was never clear on whether gnomes were 'fey naturalists' or 'mad alchemists.' I guess rather than clear that up, they were removed from the PHB entirely, which is fine with me.

If I were doing some campaign conversions:
Dragonlance: Qualinesti, Sylvanesti = Eladrin; Kagonesti = Elf
Forgotten Realms: Grey/Gold Elf = Eladrin; Moon/Wood Elf = Elf

I am neutral at this point on whether I like that Elves and Eladrin are related, however distantly. I would prefer that Eladrin were "sort of outsiders" while Elves (and Drow) are "sort of fey."

Why do we have to have a tight definition of how they'll act though. How do humans act? Probably in 6 billion different ways. Why should any other intelligent, humanoid race be any different, in terms of being suggested or built to conform to a stereotype?

Banshee