Elemental Evil characters not allowed in Season 3?

[kalani]

"So, I can rebuild once at any level, despite being told I can't once I am past level 5?"

It depends what level your character was on November 3rd.

• Level 5 or Higher on November 3rd, 2015: You are granted one (and only one) free rebuild of your character. This rebuild should be performed soonish, as it is not intended to be banked. My recommendation is for players to perform these rebuilds before their character reaches the next character level. It would be against the spirit of this rebuild to have your L6 character continue leveling to 12th level and then use their free rebuild.
• Level 4 or lower on November 3rd, 2015: Your character can be rebuilt using the normal rebuild rules until such times as they reach 5th level. Such characters are not granted the free "higher level" rebuild.

The reason that L5+ characters were granted a rebuild was due to the fact that SCAG was retroactively added to all story origins. As such, the rebuild is intended to provide existing higher level characters access to options they should have had at 1st-4th level (when rebuilding was an option). Whether they use them or not is irrelevant.

"I can rebuild even if I created a brand new Rage of Demons character that already uses some SCAG options? It doesn't say I'm excluded from the offer."

Unfortunately no. The rebuild offer only applies to existing 5th level or higher characters. If you create a new character (of any story origin), you can rebuild the character as much as you want before 5th level, but after hitting 5th level - you are stuck with whatever options you last chose.

New characters (and existing characters of 4th level or lower) are unaffected by the retroactive inclusion of SCAG to all story origins, as they can already be rebuilt at will. It is only the higher level characters which were negatively affected by the inclusion (and the reason why such characters were granted a single-use rebuild).

"So you can rebuild even if you have no intention of adding any SCAG material?

Yes.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Bingo. Splat combo's had to die and this is an efficient way to do it.

WHy?

Let me guess because in another edition there was a problem that in no way relates to this edition?

I can stop pun pun in 3.5 without stoping fun characters... there is 0 reason why a genesi looses access to sub classes other then "Because we said so"

 

[kalani]

Power creep is inevitable in all editions (to a lesser or greater extent). The story origin mechanic prevents this from becoming a problem in AL. 3.5 and 4E were on the high end of power creep, but even something as innocuous as a new cantrip does constitute power creep.

Due to the release schedule, and the small number of character options in each splatbook, the rate at which power creep accumulates in 5E is a fraction of the speed at which it accumulated in 3.5 and 4E. Despite this however, it is only a matter of time before an unintended rules interaction results in the first broken combination in 5E, although I suspect this to occur in 1-2 years at the earliest (compared with previous editions which saw their first broken combo's appearing within the first year).

The only way to prevent power creep, is for each new option to be extensively playtested when combined with all existing options. This would eventually slow development to a crawl making it an untenable goal. As such, developers and playtester's only playtest new products when combined with the options in the core rulebooks (and perhaps 1-2 other products).

 

[Jester David]

WHy?

Let me guess because in another edition there was a problem that in no way relates to this edition?

Not just in another edition but in every past edition. It gets hard to manage all the new content and combinations available. It's hard on a DM who might not keep up with all the content when a character shows up and their race, class, and subclass are all unfamiliar.

And there's the temptation to show-up with three or four different books for each of your characters.
I do some Pathfinder Society and I use six different books for one character. Three for another. Since I might not know what character I'm playing, I take none different books to each game. But through combining a few different options and some multiclassing, I also have an archer character that hits of Wisdom, adds Wisdom to AC and CMD, adds Wisdom to Initiative, and uses Wis for Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. Option creep = power creep.

I can stop pun pun in 3.5 without stoping fun characters... there is 0 reason why a genesi looses access to sub classes other then "Because we said so"

How? Could you give an example of a rule that blocks option creep created overpowered characters that doesn't require going through each book and banning certain combinations? But still allows people to pick-and-choose freely?

It seems awkward now when there's only the two small resources and no sign of anything larger. But they can't give people open access now and then, suddenly, change the rules in five years when there's more books.

 

[CapnZapp]

It depends what level your character was on November 3rd.

• Level 5 or Higher on November 3rd, 2015: You are granted one (and only one) free rebuild of your character. This rebuild should be performed soonish, as it is not intended to be banked. My recommendation is for players to perform these rebuilds before their character reaches the next character level. It would be against the spirit of this rebuild to have your L6 character continue leveling to 12th level and then use their free rebuild.
• Level 4 or lower on November 3rd, 2015: Your character can be rebuilt using the normal rebuild rules until such times as they reach 5th level. Such characters are not granted the free "higher level" rebuild.

The reason that L5+ characters were granted a rebuild was due to the fact that SCAG was retroactively added to all story origins. As such, the rebuild is intended to provide existing higher level characters access to options they should have had at 1st-4th level (when rebuilding was an option). Whether they use them or not is irrelevant.

Unfortunately no. The rebuild offer only applies to existing 5th level or higher characters. If you create a new character (of any story origin), you can rebuild the character as much as you want before 5th level, but after hitting 5th level - you are stuck with whatever options you last chose.

New characters (and existing characters of 4th level or lower) are unaffected by the retroactive inclusion of SCAG to all story origins, as they can already be rebuilt at will. It is only the higher level characters which were negatively affected by the inclusion (and the reason why such characters were granted a single-use rebuild).

Yes.

Sorry but you're adding several pieces of information that simply isn't in the document.

I've scoured the doc, this doc:

The Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide and You!
D&D Adventurers League Player’s Guide Addendum
11/6/2015
https://doc-0s-4k-docs.googleuserco...057/*/0B2OEHuo9GN3HLV8tOVFCNG1GcGM?e=download

And it does not say anything about this to be a limited offer only.

What it does say is

Everyone, regardless of level or story origin, gets a chance to rebuild their character. Effectively this means nothing changes for characters under 5th level,

but that is not the same as what you're saying.

Per the document, I could have a 4th level character, level him up to 5th level and then claim the one-time rebuild offer.

With what you are saying, I can't. But the document doesn't outright say the offer applies only to current level 5+ characters. Since it talks about all characters, and doesn't set a time limit on the offer, I could argue it should apply even to future level 5+ characters. (That last bit is for the purposes of our discussion. Of course, nobody will talk about a "future character" - they will just show up with their level 5+ character, and the question is then: if you notice the character was rebuilt at level 4 per usual but after Nov 3, will you prevent it from using the special offer to be rebuilt once more, but now at level 5 or higher?

Is that even desirable? Wouldn't it be better to drop the idea of your post (to treat characters differently depending on what level and rebuild-status they were prior to November 3) and simply go by the document as written, that is without those special limitations?

Heck, I could even make the case to rebuild my 4th level character several times, level up, and then still claim the one-time offer. The document says nothing that connects the offer to regular rebuilds. You say once you've made a regular rebuild, you've used up the special offer. But that simply isn't in the document.

I am not saying anything of the above to challenge your authority, Kalani. I am however saying that if your information is definitive then the document should probably be updated one more time.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It seems awkward now when there's only the two small resources and no sign of anything larger. But they can't give people open access now and then, suddenly, change the rules in five years when there's more books.

Sure they can...

they can totally say "As of right now anything goes"

then 4 books from now (at this rate over a year from now) limit it. there is no reason why we have to limit non broken things in order to limit broken ones.

There may come a day when picking race from A and multi classing 2 classes from non phb sources and a sub class from a third source with a feat from a 4th MAY be a problem... maybe... but that day is not today.


Lets say I want to play a Genesis fire mage, and fight with a flaming short sword and my best friend wants to be a goliath warlock with the new undying pact... neaither can. Not for a story reason, because both are fine. Not for a power reason, neaither is broken. Not even for a theritical power issue, because there is none with combineing those books... but MAYBE a year or so from now there MIGHT be a combo that causes an issue...

and that's BS... I can't play what I want because maybe someday someone might find a broken combo...

 

[skerritthegreen]

and that's BS... I can't play what I want because maybe someday someone might find a broken combo...

What's worse, saying we don't let these combos so you can't make that PC, or letting you make the PC, play it for a year or two and then say the new book makes that combo horrible, so we are taking away your PC? Its much easier to let things in than take them away.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

What's worse, saying we don't let these combos so you can't make that PC, or letting you make the PC, play it for a year or two and then say the new book makes that combo horrible, so we are taking away your PC? Its much easier to let things in than take them away.

what are you talking about? nothing new can make something already made broken... at best it is a new option to be restricted... want to stop Pun pun... stop that one race...that's right 1 race from being PC playable or useable (I don't remember the name but the one that lets them modify other lizard races) without that pun pun is dead in the water... no PC kobolds effected at all...

until someone can show either a story, or mechanic issue with a genesi purple dragon knight, then it is a random restriction... it's even worse when you say "If both the race and sub class were in the phb no on would care"

 

[skerritthegreen]

then it is a random restriction...

I think its been explained to you by multiple people why the restriction is in place, so its not random no matter how much you say that phrase. I am sorry that you feel rules are arbitrary created for no other reason than to limited you. Hopefully we can do better in the future.

 

[Jester David]

Sure they can...

they can totally say "As of right now anything goes" then 4 books from now (at this rate over a year from now) limit it.

And, assuming they grandfather in existing characters, there'll be people who miss the deadline and cannot make a planned build. Or people who cannot make a character equivalent to the people they're playing with at the table. It creates confusion, tension, and a double standard based on when people started.

And there's a chance of not getting the ruling in on time. Unless the AL receives copies of the books early and catches a broken combo in time to make the ruling, there might be a window where people could make a character that breaks the power curve.

there is no reason why we have to limit non broken things in order to limit broken ones.

There may come a day when picking race from A and multi classing 2 classes from non phb sources and a sub class from a third source with a feat from a 4th MAY be a problem... maybe... but that day is not today.

Lets say I want to play a Genesis fire mage, and fight with a flaming short sword and my best friend wants to be a goliath warlock with the new undying pact... neaither can. Not for a story reason, because both are fine. Not for a power reason, neaither is broken. Not even for a theritical power issue, because there is none with combineing those books... but MAYBE a year or so from now there MIGHT be a combo that causes an issue...

Oh well. If you really want to play that character, then start a homegame.
Y'know, assuming the DM doesn't also impose limits on options and races. Don't come play at my table because there are no goliaths in my world.

Organized play works based on restrictions. There was a wealth of things I could not do in Living Greyhawk and cannot do in PFS. There are lots of things that work just fine in a homegame but would fall apart in organized play. They need to impose some limits and rules.

and that's BS... I can't play what I want because maybe someday someone might find a broken combo...

Do you regularly play AL? Are you actually unable to play a combination you wanted for your next character? Or is this a theoretical complaint?