Elemental Planes Killed

[Sundragon2012]

...and Takhisis is merely an aspect of Tiamat, but some people have embraced the new Cosmology that came along in the Dragonlance d20 hardcover.

Burn the heretic....Takhisis an aspect of some glorified monster that sits on Asmodeus' doorstep...feh...what lies.

Thank that Dark Queen that Planescape is not canon whatsoever any longer and each setting gets the respect it deserves and is not an appendage of Planescape and the "core" cosmology. IMO shoehorning Krynn and Dark Sun into the Great Wheel was one of the sloppiest bits of nonsense TSR ever pulled. Both those settings were created with NO express, implied or suggested connection the Great Wheel. In fact Tracy Hickman who created Krynn said that world has its own cosmology. But nooooo.....TSR insisted on dumping everything into the Great Wheel.

Thus we get heresies like Takhisis being an aspect of Tiamat and eve the greatest planar sages of Krynn are dumb berks who can't get their own cosmology right.

Sorry, but the whole Great Wheel, Krynn, Athas, Spelljammer thing (which attempted to shoehorn all settings into friggin giant crystal spheres) gets my dander up when unrelated canon (like Planescape or Spelljammer) messes with seperate and valid settings (like Krynn and Athas).



Sundragon

 

[Baby Samurai]

Burn the heretic....Takhisis an aspect of some glorified monster that sits on Asmodeus' doorstep...

Well be prepared for Tiamat to be a god in 4th Ed, ala Asmodeus.

 

[catsclaw227]

You're right that it's a Greyhawk thing, but it was first described in the First Edition Manual of the Planes and fleshed-out in the Second Edition Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set.

On Hallowed Ground was a Planescape setting supplement specifically about deities, their realms, and their servants.

Yes, yes... my bad. I got stuck on my cosmology rant and equated it to the pantheons we used, though, in some respect, they are not so mutually exclusive.

 

[gizmo33]

You're right that it's a Greyhawk thing, but it was first described in the First Edition Manual of the Planes and fleshed-out in the Second Edition Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set.

Huh? My 1E PHB has a drawing of the layout of the elemental planes, and there was a Dragon magazine article before that. The Manual of the Planes wasn't a Greyhawk supplement - it used the deities and demi-gods for gods and IIRC didn't mention the Greyhawk deities.

 

[gizmo33]

Oh - it was actually the entire Great Wheel cosmology that was described in the 1E PHB. I'm sure there have been variations on it through various editions, but it was considered the default layout of the outer planes for all campaigns, not just Greyhawk.

For example, Ed Greenwood makes reference to it in his Nine Hells articles - relocating deities out of the Hells to the other lower outer planes. So he was apparently using it for his Forgotten Realms, or at least assuming that others were.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You're right, I've been having way too much wrong-bad-fun with the elemental planes in my gaming career. It's a good thing that it seems like they're ditching them.

Silly me.

Why is this a matter of right and wrong? Can't it be that, I dunno, people have fun in different ways?

 

[Sundragon2012]

Well be prepared for Tiamat to be a god in 4th Ed, ala Asmodeus.

Make her a greater power for god's sake WoTC along with Bahamut.

Has anyone noticed how relatively pitiful the draconic dieties are? Why in heaven's name would Bahamut and Tiamat THE gods of the dragons in iconic D&D reality not as powerful as the greatest god of the Halflings or Dwarves? I don't DM core but on principle I think this should be the case.

Hopefully this will be rectified.



Sundragon

 

[Desdichado]

IMHO their core essence is that some are NOT good adventure sites. On Fire Planes magma level fire damage should be the default. Any one not protected from fire should find their eyes fried to a crisp as soon as they are open and taking massive con damage should they dare to breath in the superheated air.

If you go to the Elemental Plane of fire you die. No save.

Yeah, that's fun.

 

[Desdichado]

I disagree that an elemental plane of water with a bottom is believable. If anything, that makes it less believable. The elemental plane of water is just water. It is a comparison that breaks down if stretched too far, but imagine a gas giant planet made up of water instead of gas. To me, that is what the elemental plane of water should be.

Pedantic note: gas giants have solid cores.

 

[Jhaelen]

What I love is how everyone defending the changes is taking examples of cosmology from Eberron, Planescape, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, etc and saying it's different from traditional DnD cosmology. Well it should be since they are setting books and not core.

Actually, I think, it would be best if the core rulebooks were completely silent on the matter of other planes.

All you really need is a chapter in the DMG with optional rules on planar traits to create your own multiverse - should you feel a need for something like it to exist.

Anything beyond that should be setting-specific.