Elements of Magic - Spell Creation and Critique

[RangerWickett]

The 'wiki' site (what does that mean, by the way?) is nifty. After LA comes out, I'd certainly be interested in helping out a bit. For instance, it'd be inappropriate for me to put my characters in a book just for vanity, but on your website, it'd be fair, I'd think, because it's showing people how the rules work.

 

[Verequus]

The word wiki originates from the hawaian wiki-wiki, which means fast. A wiki allows access for everyone to edit the content.

 

[Archus]

The 'wiki' site (what does that mean, by the way?) is nifty. After LA comes out, I'd certainly be interested in helping out a bit. For instance, it'd be inappropriate for me to put my characters in a book just for vanity, but on your website, it'd be fair, I'd think, because it's showing people how the rules work.

RulesMaster had it right on the definition of wiki.

Anyeone is allowed to just edit the pages right there in the web browser. I'm hopeing that I can get some interest in others posting their spells, rules, feats, etc. If nothing else it will give me material to work with for my game.

Posting characters will help let people see how things can work and provide premade NPCs using the rules.

I'm really looking forward to LA coming out. If you need any playtesting just give me a buzz.

 

[torem13]

Originally Posted by Kemrain
Spell Creation and Critique.. We've seen creation, now we see Critique.
Quote:

Originally Posted by torem13
SLEEPING CIRCLE
Charm Humanoid 0/Gen 5
DC: 13
Total MP: 5
Range: Short (30 ft.)
Duration: One minute
Area: 10 ft radius burst
HD Threshold: 5 HD
Saving Throw: Will negates
This spell creates an area of light sleep from which creatures effected can be easily awoken, however they do not get a save after the first. Count lower HD creatures first up to the maximum. If only a single creature is targeted and has more than 5 HD add +1 on save for each HD above 5. Costs: 1 MP range, 1 MP area, 0 MP weak sleep, 3 MP subtle charm.

Because Subtle Charm is a Charm enhancement, and not a General Enhancement, the HD limit of this spell is 8, not 5. Otherwise, this is perfect. That'll teach ya to power down yer own spells.

I missed that Subtle Charm is a charm enhancement. Here is the reposted spell with correction.

SLEEPING CIRCLE
Charm Humanoid 3/Gen 2
DC: 13
Total MP: 5
Range: Short (30 ft.)
Duration: One minute
Area: 10 ft radius burst
HD Threshold: 8 HD
Saving Throw: Will negates
This spell creates an area of light sleep from which creatures effected can be easily awoken, however they do not get a save after the first. Count lower HD creatures first up to the maximum. If only a single creature is targeted and has more than 5 HD add +1 on save for each HD above 5. Costs: 1 MP range, 1 MP area, 0 MP weak sleep, 3 MP subtle charm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemrain
I'm not sure this spell can do what's being asked of it. The blindness looks alright, except that the dazzled effect lasts for a minute, not simply the rest of the duration (you're getting a free round, whoohoo.) The Create Metal is a problem, however. Because this spell combines two spell lists, it's not a "Simple Spell" and you forfeit any Free Cantrip effects. Any Spell Lists after the first force all spell lists involved to be 1 MP at the minimum. This, as described, is a 5 MP spell, minimum. Lastly, I know the Glitterdust spell in the PhB has a penalty to Hide, but you'd need to pay MP for that effect, and it isn't taken into account. With Illusion Light 3 you could inflict a -20 penalty to Hide, and you should be able to use Drain Air 12 to inflict a -40 penalty to Hide (can't find the rules that say you can, but damnit, I wanna!) Inflicting a -40 penalty to hide is a bit much to ask a 1MP Create Metal, and I'm sure someone could word a Illusion Shadow 3 spell so that even being covered by gold dust wouldn't make them visible, but, the concept stands.


- Kemrain the Friendly Critic.

Originally Posted by Astriemer
My bad, I was trying to suggest a modification of someone else's spell and didn't think about the fact that the create metal was still a 0 MP effect. You're right it should be
Create Metal 1 / Evoke Light 1 / Gen 3
and thus a 5 MP spell.

Regarding the extra round of blindness, can't you always choose to have an effect last for less than the maximum duration for flavor?

I'm not sure that you would "need" to pay extra for the hide penalty effect. One could assume that the -40 penalty from the PHB is just a mechanical description for what the bright glittering dust has on a person's chance to hide. Thus the -40 could be just a description for what the dust created by the Create Metal 1 illuminated by the Create Light 1 does, rather than be a separate effect. I agree though that looking at if from just the 1 MP create metal does seem extreme.

I don't think it is extreme. A 5 MP spell is the approximate equal to a 3rd level spell. Glitterdust in the Phb is only 2 level. The Phb does state you can reveal hidden objects by coating them with chalk even though it doesn't give a hard number for the modifier. Being coated with shiny dust should drastically reduce the chances to hide. Creating a cloud of shiny gold-colored dust doesn't even break the 0 mp cost limit of 20 gp. My modification of the spell to eliminate the light part reduces it to a 3 mp spell which is still less powerful than the original 2nd level spell. My only possible problem is that MICA is a metallic crystal, so I don't know if it should be create crystal, create metal, create nature or create earth.

SHIMMERDUST
Create Metal 0/Gen 3
Total MP: 3
Range: Medium (150 ft.)
Duration: 1 minute
Area: 10 ft. radius effect
Saving Throw: N/A
A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades.
Any creature covered by the dust takes a –40 penalty on Hide checks.

Thanks for the critique. If I come up with more spells I will post them.

 

[astriemer]

I don't think it is extreme. A 5 MP spell is the approximate equal to a 3rd level spell. Glitterdust in the Phb is only 2 level. The Phb does state you can reveal hidden objects by coating them with chalk even though it doesn't give a hard number for the modifier. Being coated with shiny dust should drastically reduce the chances to hide. Creating a cloud of shiny gold-colored dust doesn't even break the 0 mp cost limit of 20 gp. My modification of the spell to eliminate the light part reduces it to a 3 mp spell which is still less powerful than the original 2nd level spell. My only possible problem is that MICA is a metallic crystal, so I don't know if it should be create crystal, create metal, create nature or create earth.

SHIMMERDUST
Create Metal 0/Gen 3
Total MP: 3
Range: Medium (150 ft.)
Duration: 1 minute
Area: 10 ft. radius effect
Saving Throw: N/A
A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades.
Any creature covered by the dust takes a –40 penalty on Hide checks.

Thanks for the critique. If I come up with more spells I will post them.

I didn't think the 5 MP version was extreme either. I was saying the for 1 MP (or 0 MP) giving a -40 penalty seems extreme. Granted, it is a natural side effect (as natural as things can be in a magical world) similar to coating with flour, but it seems to break the cost system somewhat. What's to stop me from making a simple cantrip like

COAT WITH DUST
Create Metal 0/Gen 0
Total MP: 0
Range: Touch
Duration: 1 minute
Area: 5' square
Saving Throw: None
A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades.
Any creature covered by the dust takes a –40 penalty on Hide checks.

Granted, you'd have to target the correct square and it has to be next to you. I suppose that it is not that much different than what would happen if you spread flour in the square next to you. Okay, I suppose the cantrip isn't too powerful given the implications of the glitterdust spell.
However, if you compare it to a 0 MP cantrip Drain, it is much more powerful (though more limited in scope as it applies to only one specific dex based skill).

Any thoughts RW?

 

[RangerWickett]

Dude, if you can toss flour on someone without being able to wield magical forces, I think letting you do it with a cantrip is fair. I'm not sure about the '-40 penalty' part, though. Maybe if you used Create Light along with another create type, or just had the Elemental Object enhancement to cover them with solid light, you could justify it.

I wouldn't give it a number. Just say that you can't hide behind concealment if you're coated with light, unless the thing you're hiding behind is glowing too. You certainly wouldn't be able to use a shadow as concealment.

 

[Archus]

Dude, if you can toss flour on someone without being able to wield magical forces, I think letting you do it with a cantrip is fair. I'm not sure about the '-40 penalty' part, though. Maybe if you used Create Light along with another create type, or just had the Elemental Object enhancement to cover them with solid light, you could justify it.

I wouldn't give it a number. Just say that you can't hide behind concealment if you're coated with light, unless the thing you're hiding behind is glowing too. You certainly wouldn't be able to use a shadow as concealment.

Using Elemental object enhancement could end up being outrageously expensive for what the spell does (since the same MP cost could create a ring of solid fire to burn people to a crisp or a wall of solid death). But I don't think that covering an invisible person with flour would help much since anything picked up by an invisible person becomes invisible as well (if EoMR works like regular invisibility).

But what I'd bet would work just dandy is a Create Nature spell that coats the area in firefly juice, producing something like the glow stick effect. Even if it turns invisible, it still sheds light and would nicely outline someone. Bioluminesence can also be found in deep sea creatures. Maybe a Summon Vermin spell could fill an area with fireflies that would latch onto anyone they touch and nicely highlight them (unless you roll on the ground and squash them).

http://www.geocities.com/thesciencefiles/firefly/page.html

Maybe a Light Illusion or plain Create Light could stick some light to something (need Move Force to have it move right?) and leave it at that.

I probably wouldn't give an actual penalty to hide, just the fact that you glow is good enough. But Glitterdust has the same penalty. If you really wanted to simulate Glitterdust you need to add a blindness effect to the spell.

 

[RangerWickett]

Things picked up by invisible creatures turn invisible if they are tucked inside a pocket or something. Flour and such is still visible. But yeah, your idea is nifty too, though being covered in firefly innards is kinda disgusting.

 

[astriemer]

Things picked up by invisible creatures turn invisible if they are tucked inside a pocket or something. Flour and such is still visible. But yeah, your idea is nifty too, though being covered in firefly innards is kinda disgusting.

Given the recent "Rules of the Game" article on the Woc web site http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a perhaps this would be a better description of the dusting cantrip

COAT WITH DUST
Create Metal 0/Gen 0
Total MP: 0
Range: Touch
Duration: 1 minute
Area: 5' square
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed unless the creature removes all its clothing. The dust catches the existing light and sparkles faintly until the spell expires.

Any creature covered by the dust can automatically be located. A located invisible creature still causes a 50% miss chance and is still immune to special attacks that require precise targeting (such as sneak attacks and favored enemy bonuses).

Variants of this spell exist (using other spell lists such as Create Nature) that cover the target in a variety of other substances (such as flour, firefly juice, etc.), but the effects remain unchanged.



Then the -40 to hide checks (as per Glitterdust) would probably be more appropriate for the version of the spell that combines Create Metal 1/Create Light 1.

 

[Archus]

Any creature covered by the dust can automatically be located. A located invisible creature still causes a 50% miss chance and is still immune to special attacks that require precise targeting (such as sneak attacks and favored enemy bonuses).

Reading the section of that article on marking invisible foes with flour, it looks like it would just make them visible so you wouldn't suffer any miss chance. They would get a reflex save to avoid the flour. It really would make no sense to suffer a miss chance to hit the humanoid shaped area of flour.

It means that invisiblity is realitively easy to negate if you can pin down the general area or get a large area effect. I've got no problem with that since the spell is relatively easy to pull off (3 MP and you can still attack). So for the same number of MP I can glitter (or firefly juice) up a 30' radius from myself - sounds fair.

The glitterdust spell would probably still have a penalty to hide checks because of the glitter - effects your attempts to hide if you are invisible or not and that makes sense.