D&D General elf definition semantic shenanigans

[Minigiant]

I really don't think "winged elves" or "water-breathing elves" should be elves. Like they seem physiologically drastically different. We wouldn't consider tritons or angels to be subspecies of humans.

Personally,I see elves as amorphous to their beliefs.
Or in simple terms, elves transform based on their culture and deity worship. Not immediately but after generations or divine intervention.
Basically, there is an elf subspecies for every elven god.

1 elven god,1 elf race.
3 elven god,3 elf races.
10 elven god,10 elf races.

or you can use the MOTM explanation that elves were malleable fey and could change form until Lloth tricked them.
fey crossing- high elves
forest- wood elves
Feywild- eladrin
oceans- sea elves
Shadowfell- shadar kai
SPACE- astral elves
Underdark- drow

 

[Thomas Shey]

Phenotypical expressions brought out by magic as magic ushered in the Sixth World on our own planet. Anyone remember the Earthdawn RPG series? Well it also took place on our world during a period of time known as the Fourth World. A very D&D-like world.

Well, like I said, I always saw it as epigentic, which is a step beyond simple phenotypical issues, but it distinctly isn't the same as full blow speciatiation.

 

[Divine2021]

What sort of mechanical differences? This seems questionable to me.

Why does it seem questionable? It’s been the accepted practice through a good chunk of DnD’s history that some races/lineages get +1 to this stat, +2 to another etc etc. I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying here.

 

[Corinnguard]

The Sharakim from 3e's Races of Destiny are a good example of 'don't judge a book by it's cover.'

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/emerald-isles/images/0/0d/Sharakim.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200113204939

While the Sharakim look like well-dressed Orcs, they are of human origin.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Why does it seem questionable? It’s been the accepted practice through a good chunk of DnD’s history that some races/lineages get +1 to this stat, +2 to another etc etc. I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying here.

They are all humans. Imagine assigning stat bonuses to real life human cultures or ethnicities. It would get super problematic really quick.

 

[Minigiant]

Which leads to one of two outcomes:

Elf is a broad generic term encompassing hundreds of types and cultures held together by the thinnest of veneers.

Elf is a complex specific species that has deep ties to a certain lore and culture which is done by jettisoning all other setting specific types of elf and only focusing on one settings type of elves.

Elf is either a mile wide and inch deep or a mile deep and an inch wide, but you're not getting both.

Or

Elves are a race of pointy eared, long lived humaniods who were former fey that transitioned into humaniods in different ways depending on where they left the their original plane from.

 

[Divine2021]

They are all humans. Imagine assigning stat bonuses to real life human cultures or ethnicities. It would get super problematic really quick.

This isn’t real life, it’s a fantasy game established on a literary property that has distinct regional differences between peoples that is emphasized through the story telling. Again, I’m not sure what the issue is here, as we are dealing with a fictional game of make believe dealing with faeries and wizards and halflings who live in holes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

This isn’t real life, it’s a fantasy game established on a literary property that has distinct regional differences between peoples that is emphasized through the story telling. Again, I’m not sure what the issue is here, as we are dealing with a fictional game of make believe dealing with faeries and wizards and halflings who live in holes.

Fiction is not completely divorced from the real world. Fantasy cultures can be seen analogous to real cultures, and whilst I feel it is weird to complain about biological essentialism when it comes to literal non-human species, it is pretty damn valid complaint when such essentialism is applied to humans.

 

[Scribe]

if we know themes we know what mechanics should be thus it is both.

For a given edition, sure.

A few special rules.
A few positive ASI.
A negative ASI.
Species specific Ability caps.

Done.

 

[Divine2021]

Fiction is not completely divorced from the real world. Fantasy cultures can be seen analogous to real cultures, and whilst I feel it is weird to complain about biological essentialism when it comes to literal non-human species, it is pretty damn valid complaint when such essentialism is applied to humans.

My fiction is divorced from the real world as I am not a child and I am not playing at allegory. I’m not interested in this conversation with you, especially since you decided to swear at me.