D&D General elf definition semantic shenanigans

[Crimson Longinus]

My fiction is divorced from the real world as I am not a child and I am not playing at allegory.

Well. That's not just how the world works. Making biologically essentialist human cultures or ethnicities just comes across as racists.

I’m not interested in this conversation with you, especially since you decided to swear at me.

I thought you were not a child?

 

[Divine2021]

Well. That's not just how the world works. Making biologically essentialist human cultures or ethnicities just comes across as racists.


I thought you were not a child?

Now you’re purposefully trolling, which is against the rules here and so I’m just going to report and then block you. I’m going to politely remind you that you’re getting mad and swearing at me because my preferences in my make believe fairy tale games are different than yours.

 

[Tonguez]

In my game Elfs are born as a swirling mass of ethereal mist, lingering spirits denied material existence in the world and seeking to drain the material substance of mortals with which to manifest their own body. As it moves the mist coalesces into vague shapes resembling faces and limbs, the creature driven by a desperate longing for the sensations and experiences it can only grasp through possessing a tangible body. Some Elfs will use illusion and seduction to lure mortals into isolated areas where they can be drained, while others will offer bargains, slowly draining a mortal in return for love or inspiration. (Either way Elfs drain Strength and take it for themselves, when a victim is fully drained the Elf can manifest a physical body and live a life, the victim fades into the mist)
If the physical body of an Elf is damaged it can heal by draining the constitution of another. Elfs also have the option of dissipating their physical forms and going back to mist, thus beginning the cycle again

 

[Remathilis]

Or

Elves are a race of pointy eared, long lived humaniods who were former fey that transitioned into humaniods in different ways depending on where they left the their original plane from.

Option one. Got it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This would depend on the setting (WoTC, 3pp or homebrewed) in question. Somewhere, a member of D&D community probably does have tritons or angels as human subraces.

There were a number of races in 3e's Races of Destiny that had the human subtype. Illumians, Mongrelfolk, Sea Kin, Sharakim, Skulk and Underfolk.

We're not allowed to have different kinds of humans, at least not mechanically. Triton and angels have to be separate from humans, even if it might make more sense to do it a different way.

Elves don't have this issue.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I was going from memory with a few lookups for spelling. I missed dozens of variants and probably even more cultures. I know for example I missed most of the environment variants like Arctic elves or desert elves.

And Level Up proves my point: they aren't beholden to support a half-dozen subraces and a dozen settings worth of elves lest people create ire about them removing an important part of the setting by not having elf culture #765. Yet somehow WotC needs to define elf in such a way astral elves, Arenral elves, and Athasian elves are both under one roof.

Which leads to one of two outcomes:

Elf is a broad generic term encompassing hundreds of types and cultures held together by the thinnest of veneers.

Elf is a complex specific species that has deep ties to a certain lore and culture which is done by jettisoning all other setting specific types of elf and only focusing on one settings type of elves.

Elf is either a mile wide and inch deep or a mile deep and an inch wide, but you're not getting both.

And yet you can use Level Up (including its excellent 3pp support) to make any elf you can imagine.

 

[Minigiant]

Option one. Got it.

The veneer is not thin.

Elves are like dogs, They share many characteristics. Their organs are all the same and weakens and strengthened in the same ways.. However they vary heavily in size, color, weight, and ear, mouth, and nose shape.

But just like you can tell 4 different dogs are all dogs, you can tell 4 different elves they are all elves.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They are all humans. Imagine assigning stat bonuses to real life human cultures or ethnicities. It would get super problematic really quick.

One advantage I suppose of having D&D be as big as it is is that it can take much of the flak on this issue, so other games can use different design philosophies and not get strung up for it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fiction is not completely divorced from the real world. Fantasy cultures can be seen analogous to real cultures, and whilst I feel it is weird to complain about biological essentialism when it comes to literal non-human species, it is pretty damn valid complaint when such essentialism is applied to humans.

They can also not be seen as analogous to real cultures. That's a choice.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

They can also not be seen as analogous to real cultures. That's a choice.

Not really. In many fantasy setting there are cultures directly inspired by the real world. I get that people sometimes over interpret things, but thinking that Kara-Tur is analogous to Asia and Harad is analogous to Africa is not a case of that. The similarity is explicit and intentional.