Eliminating Attacks of Opportunity

[d12]

I like AoO but no one else in my group does, so we simply eliminated them. Things seem to be just fine. Combat goes faster because no one is asking "will THIS cause and AoO...how about this?" For casual players (like my group) who don't try to squeeze every little advantage out of holes in the rules, there is no problem with just ignoring AoO.

It will make Combat Reflexes useless, monsters with reach less powerful, spellcasters more powerful, concentration and tumble ranks become less useful, and sneak attacking easier.

At higher levels, it is generally easier to avoid AoO anyway because the DC of tumble checks and concentration checks to cast spells become easier to make (assuming max ranks are taken).

If you are worried about characters running away too easily just remember that the bad guys can too!!!

 

[Pielorinho]

My evaluation of removing AoOs:

Disadvantage: it can lead to silly tactics like shooting someone full of arrows while they hack away at you with a greatsword.
Disadvantage: it removes some interesting feats and tactics from the game.

Neutral (depending on your take): It weakens melee fighters as compared to other character types, inasmuch as melee fighters are the ones who benefit the most from AoO rules.

Advantage: it streamlines the rules.
Advantage: it makes it much easier to run combat without miniatures.

All in all, I like AoOs. Occasionally I'll run through a simple battle without them, if I want the fight to be done without the hassle of setting up the battlemap; but normally we use them and enjoy them.

Daniel

 

[Plane Sailing]

Please note the lack of Ranged Attacks of Opportunity.

You misunderstand me. The section you quote from my post wasn't referring to AoO but to the assertion that a melee round consists of a lot of swings, only one or so of which actually might connect.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Still can't search, so I'll lay out the basics of (one way) of removing AoO in order to simplify the game. The main issues seem to be

1. Situations which provoke AoO
2. Feats related to AoO
3. Reach or related bonuses which are lost.

1. Any normal action which used to cause an AoO just can't be done. You can't use your bow when you are adjacent to a foe (you have to back up 5ft and shoot), you can't dig a potion out of your bag when in combat, you can't just run past an armed enemy, In order to get out of combat you have to use the withdraw option etc. The exceptions to this general principle are special actions such as bull rush, disarm, trip, grapple etc. As per SWd20 these can be attempted at any time without incurring any problems. Attacking someone with reach is handled slightly differently, see #3.

2. Some feats change. In SWd20 the Mobility feat allowed you to ignore movement restrictions in combat that were introduced in lieu of AoO i.e. you *could* run right past someone. Combat Reflexes doesn't really have any purpose and can be dropped from the list of feats. Tumble can still be used to attempt to get past/through someone but failure on the check means you stop right next to the guy rather than incur an AoO.

3. Reach weapons. We're simplifying, right? So to take reach into account we can just use a simple circumstance rule - if you have better reach than them you get +2 to attack them. If you have worse reach than them you get -2 to attack them. If you both have the same degree of reach then you have neither benefit or penalty. (Personally I'd probably use +/-4 rather than +/-2, because it really seems to be pretty difficult to get past a reach weapon from everything I've seen in practise. Others may have different experience but we've got to go with what we know, eh? I've used +/-2 here because that is the "DM's friend" figure from the DMG for favourable/unfavourable circumstances, which seems to cover the issue.)



These principles simplify combat and makes it quicker, (although it might mean that more interesting manouvres get used too). It also greatly facilitates melee without miniatures.

If there are any AoO situations that I've overlooked here please remind me, I'd like to try to cover all the bases.

Cheers

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Attacks of oppurtunity are easy to use and add alot to the game, I can't fathom playing with out them.
Here's when you use them:

Moving in/out of threatened area.
Casting a spell (concentration check DC 15+spell level can allow one to not provoke an attack of oppurtunity) in a foes threatened area
Standing up in a foes threatened area
Firing a range weapon in a foes threatened area

A character gets 1 AoO per round. Unless they have combat reflexes.

 

[Sado]

Combat goes faster because no one is asking "will THIS cause and AoO...how about this?"

This is one of the things that really bothered me about AOA's. They seem to slow down combat quite a bit

 

[Conaill]

In every version of D&D (since 1st), if you're in melee and run away, your opponent gets one free attack on your backside as you turn and run off. That's the origin of what is now "attacks of opportunity", applied to a bunch of other stuff.

Seems a little weird in that case that the Withdrawal action is precisely one of the few exceptions that is built in to the 3.5 AoO system...

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

First off, it would unbalance things b/c the entire combat system has been developed with AoO in mind. Taking them out changes things a lot.

Secondly, don't throw something out when you don't understand how it works. There's a reason why it's there (and often it has less to do with the person doing the AoO than it does for the person provoking it).

 

[Plane Sailing]

First off, it would unbalance things b/c the entire combat system has been developed with AoO in mind. Taking them out changes things a lot.

With respect, I don't believe it does. WotC developed SW d20 initially without AoO and it worked just fine. The changes needed to remove AoO I give in my post above are pretty trivial compared to the changes that would be needed to, for instance, play a "low-magic" campaign with D&D, or move to a "wounds and vitality" system for D&D.

It changes combat a little, sure. Unbalances the game to the extent that it makes it unplayable? I don't believe that for one minute!

Cheers

 

[mmadsen]

I like the first two suggestions (paraphrased):

1. Any normal action which used to cause an AoO just can't be done.
2. The Mobility feat allows you to ignore movement restrictions in combat that were introduced in lieu of AoO i.e. you can run right past someone.
3. If you have better reach you get +2 to attack. If you have worse reach you get -2 to attack.

For reach weapons, just give the combatant with greater reach the first attack.

Really though, I don't think the complexity of Attacks of Opportunity comes from the notion of free attacks on combatants who stop fighting back. I think the complexity comes from all the odd exceptions. Why are 5' steps immune to Attacks of Opportunity? Why is a Withdrawal action immune to Attacks of Opportunity? (Especially when that used to be the one and only action that would provoke a free attack.)