Elminster vs. Mordenkainen

[dead]

YES ! Waldorf Hysteria.

Waldorf Hysteria wins!

End of thread.

 

[Nightfall]

Mesos, this guy creates sorcerers. The best. It's cause of him Blessed of Mesos is so damn popular. Believe me, in a fight with Mesos, no one else comes close.

 

[the Jester]

Wow! What slow progression! D&D characters can go from 1st level to 20th level in less than a game year but it took Mordy 20+ years! I can only assume he was doing a lot of spell research during this time and, thus, we have his famous spells in the PHB.

Hey, most of that took place in 1st Edition, when it took a lot longer to advance.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

And if you've read his adventures you'd see that he has gained all of his levels.

I would like to add that Elminister was an NPC of Ed Greenwood. He journeyed with the Knights of Myth Drannor, so he did actually gain levels and adventure. The Elminister from FRCS may be different from Ed's actual Elminister(since I've heard numerous things in Ed's own Forgotten Realms is different), so the published Elminister may be more powerful.

I personally don't agree. NPC advancement isn't truly earned because it is up to the DM whether or not they are ever in any mortal danger. They also can just happen to have whatever spell or item is needed at any particular time. No... I am in agreement that Elminster was/is just a toy/tool of Greenwood. As a DM I could create an NPC that would whoop Elminster but it still proves nothing. Mordenkainen was an honest-to-god REAL PC that earned his levels. In a straight up duel sure Elminster would win, but what custom made, munchkined out NPC wouldn't win against a PC?

 

[buzzard]

I personally don't agree. NPC advancement isn't truly earned because it is up to the DM whether or not they are ever in any mortal danger. They also can just happen to have whatever spell or item is needed at any particular time. No... I am in agreement that Elminster was/is just a toy/tool of Greenwood. As a DM I could create an NPC that would whoop Elminster but it still proves nothing. Mordenkainen was an honest-to-god REAL PC that earned his levels. In a straight up duel sure Elminster would win, but what custom made, munchkined out NPC wouldn't win against a PC?

While I do agree that Elminster is a DM construct, Mordenkainen isn't totally kosher as presented either. The Col has mentioned that he didn't get the the level described while he played the character. I think he only got to 18th or so (having CRS, I don't remember precisely).

buzzard

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well . . . in the Greyhawk book, "The Adventure Begins", it says that Mordenkainen was of "low level" around about circa 560 C.Y. as evidenced by his stats in the module "WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure". Now, I don't own this module so I can't tell you exactly what level he is in there but, if he was "low" level then and 27th level now in the current Greyhawk timeline of 592 C.Y., that means it took him 32 years to get from low level to epic level. Wow! What slow progression! D&D characters can go from 1st level to 20th level in less than a game year but it took Mordy 20+ years! I can only assume he was doing a lot of spell research during this time and, thus, we have his famous spells in the PHB.

Don't forget that Mordy was doing all of his adventuring under the original D&D and 1st edition AD&D rules, which required a lot more from characters in terms of XP to level up. In old-style D&D, progress was slow and represented the growth of the character. It wasn't always a video game.

Daniel

 

[diaglo]

they are just lucky they aren't characters in my campaign.

both would have died of natural aging by now.

 

[Chasmodai]

Mordy would win for two reasons:

Reason 1: Gary Gygax.

Reason 2: Mordenkainen's Disjunction.