Elven Bladesingers

[paragondragon]

If you have an a bladesinger with levels in ranger and wizard, could you theoritcally use two weapons, specifally a long sword in prime and a throwing weapon, dagger hand axe, whatever, in off-hand with the returning power on it. Could you take a full attack action and as your final off-hand attack throw the weapon so that you get the bonus to armor class from intelligence? Or are you not allowed to mix up your melee and ranged attacks in a full attack action?

 

[Viashimo]

It doesn't say otherwise, so yeah, probably.
The full attack just says you can use all your attacks/two weapon fighting/double weapon., it doesn't specify how the attacks must be used(ranged/melee).

 

[werk]

I played a bladesinger in 3.0 and I thought there was a caveat in most of the specials that said sword in one hand, nothing in the other. Something like:

Bladesong
When wielding your sword of choice (usually a longsword) in one hand, and nothing in the other, the bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to his Intelligence Modifier.

I also think there were like three different versions of BS and the one I used was in errata from the wizards' site.

 

[Sledge]

Relevant: Bladesinger specificly excludes using two weapons in all the versions I remember however since you are referring to only getting the int to ac bonus (limited by BS level) then you are in the clear as soon as you chuck the weapon in question. Just don't draw an AOO or you won't have the AC bonus. However the real question is if you are two weapon fighting by using the "axe" in the off hand. I'm pretty sure this would be the case. The only way to do this without being 2 weapon fighting is to use quickdraw to switch weapons in your primary hand.

Irrelevant:
Bladesinger is a somewhat problematic class as the 3 3.0 versions and 1 3.5 version have some big differences. Namely the 3.5 version adds caster levels, whereas the three other versions merely have spells. The real problem is that most of the special abilities of the bladesinger are *ahem* garbage. The class can basically be replicated with Eldritch Knight as well as Fighter and Wizard. A couple of the 3.0 ones are close, but due to their own spellcasting they still suck uberly.

 

[Durifern]

Bladesinger´s special abilities suck? I had the impression the general consensus was that the old 3.0 BS was rather overpowered and I would have to agree.

 

[werk]

I didn't care much for my 3.0 bladesinger. He had wizard spells, and he had BS spells, but they were two seperate spell lists, they didn't stack, and the BS list was short to say the least.

If you could cast your Wiz spells as if BS spells (no S/M) and BS adds to your caster level, then it would probably remove my main complaint.

Fear of arcane spell failure led me to wear very light armor and IMO a dex fighter is not the optimal fighter build. I just aimed for the tumble, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind type fighter, which he pulled off pretty well except he was a tad underpowered do to a few levels of wizard (IMO) and lack of armor. Basically, he'd miss a round or two buffing up, then he'd lay down after a few rounds of combat.

It was a character concept, because I love elves <gasp> and have never had a BS...and I followed through with it. He eventually came to odds with the other characters in his party (ethical issues) and stayed behind to help rebuild an elven community (and I built another character more in-line with the party).

I didn't look at the 3.5 BS yet, is it in Player's Guide to Faerun (at home)?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I as DM would not allow it. This is, essentially, powergaming, bordering on munchkinism. Bladesingers are supposed to use one weapon and one weapon only. Your idea will abuse rules. Just go with one weapon.

Fear of arcane spell failure led me to wear very light armor and IMO a dex fighter is not the optimal fighter build. I just aimed for the tumble, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind type fighter, which he pulled off pretty well except he was a tad underpowered do to a few levels of wizard (IMO) and lack of armor. Basically, he'd miss a round or two buffing up, then he'd lay down after a few rounds of combat.

I played a bladesinger as my first 3e Charakter. It was the version from the Tome and Blood Web Enhancement, though we added a couple of spells to the spell list (stuff that fit). He had one level of wizard, the rest fighter, bladesinger (of course) and divine champion. Str was main attribute (back then, you had to go with the longsword).

Not only did he have a very nice Armour Class, he also had mirror image on usually, which meant that enemies missed more often than they hit. Damage output wasn't to be spit at, either, the wizard was always jealous of it, and that was with him hasted for two spells a round

I didn't look at the 3.5 BS yet, is it in Player's Guide to Faerun (at home)?

Complete Warrior.

They gave him +1 spellcaster level every other level, loosened the weapon restriction (though we further loosened it to include elven blades except the courtblade of course), and the free quicken effect for spells was done away with (you get one free spell per day, though, but only low-level).

 

[Sledge]

Irregardless of consensus you can basically build a better bladesinger just by using the 3.5 core books. When a prestige class is all around weaker than the standard ones in the DMG then I consider it underpowered. However there are people that consider any prestige class that doesn't cripple your character to be overpowered, so I'm sure some think the bladesinger is great. That said some of the 3.0 versions are more powerful than the others versions. I haven't looked in detail at the 3rd version in 3.0 as I don't get the FR books, but if it is more powerful than the web enhancement, then it may come close to being even. However I really doubt it would be overpowered as the abilities for the 1st version can basically be replicated with 7 or so levels with the other 3 left just for hd and bab. the 2nd is about one level better and the 3.5 is also probably worth about 8 levels. So my guess for the 3rd 3.0 version is that it could be worth as much as 9 levels, but not the tenth.

 

[ForceUser]

Having played the 3.0 bladesinger for 1.5 years, I can attest to the fact that she was overpowered, for two reasons. One, with 3.0 shield her AC skyrocketed to between 37-40 by 13th level, depending on party buffs. Two, as long as she made a full attack, she could cast any bladesinger spell she had prepared as a free action during that full attack (Song of Celerity). This is the reason the 3.0 bladesinger's spell list was so small. Even so, it was probably too powerful of an ability. The 3.5 limit on Song of Celerity to once per day, however, is probably too weak. It's certainly unappealing to anyone converting from 3.0.

Regarding the OP's question, I wouldn't allow it. It goes against the spirit of the class and seems blatantly geared toward bending the rules to allow a two-weapon fighting bladesinger.

 

[moritheil]

Regarding the OP's question, I wouldn't allow it. It goes against the spirit of the class and seems blatantly geared toward bending the rules to allow a two-weapon fighting bladesinger.

It does seem to violate the class idea, which is that of someone who fights with a weapon in one hand and none in the other. The stipulation that a thrown weapon may be included in your second hand is not a part of the PrC, and I don't think most DMs would be inclined to allow it.