D&D General Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings of Color

[Yaarel]

And that fight in the second season of the Mandalorian between Ahsoka and that Forgettable-Female-Antagonist is just awesome! Merging the Japanese aesthetic with the Wild West and Space Opera theme was just chef's kiss so good.

As you said, the difference between "appreciation" and "appropriation" can be blurry.

But the appreciation can be awesome!

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Heh, I laugh when D&D portrays Thor as Chaotic.

He is thunderstorms. His lighting is understood as sometimes punishing a human for breaking an oath. Whence he is an enforcer of oaths and social obligation. His wife is Sif, whose name means "in-law", namely a family created by means of a marriage oath, rather than by means of a bloodline.

Heh, Thor is probably one of the few "Lawful" nature beings!

Agreed.
Though his alignment probably swings to Chaotic after he's drank a few flasks (I mean barrels) of mead.
(Hey! That rhymed!)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The Tolkien movies intentionally blended Japanese esthetic with Pan-Euro art nouveau esthetic to represent the elf culture.

World of Warcraft's night elves also have an Asiatic feel to their buildings (the ones that weren't burned down by the undead, anyway).

 

[Yaarel]

Agreed.
Though his alignment probably swings to Chaotic after he's drank a few flasks (I mean barrels) of mead.
(Hey! That rhymed!)

Heh, I figure even Lawful beings can have a Flaw in the personality section of their character sheet.

Thor has anger management issues. He takes after his mother who is a full-on jotnar.

When he sees injustice, he kinda just loses it!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay. Cultural Appropriation. This is a big, touchy topic.

I, too, am Norwegian (and Swedish, and a bit Danish). I'm also American, and was raised in a Christian religion, but my Norwegian ancestry is a not-insignificant part of my identity. My grandparents on my father's side (especially my grandfather) were both super into ancestry and family history, and I can tell you the story of how my family came across the Atlantic to America, were split up due to the immigration system, and although the long-lost siblings were never able to meet each other again in the USA, how their children were able to all come together again and keep in touch so that they'd never be lost again. I can tell you how my many-generations-back-Grandfather (whom I share a middle name with) was converted to Protestantism and how he emigrated to the USA from Norway to avoid religious persecution, while still keeping his Norse heritage a part of his identity. I'm descended from Vikings and Norse Kings (including the amusingly named "Olaf Olafsson", and another, "Olaf, King of Farts"), and my Grandfather would take me to local Norwegian Heritage clubs and make me eat Lutefisk (god, it tastes awful. For those that don't know, it's basically jello made of fish). I grew up on stories about Thor, Loki, Odin, Fenris Wolf, Dwarves, Elves, Einherjar, Valkyries, the Vanir, Aesir, and Jötunns.

I obviously cannot speak for all people of Norse heritage, especially those that still practice the worship of Norse deities, and I definitely cannot speak for members of other cultures and their views of cultural appropriation vs. appreciation, but when I see someone like Rick Riordan using my ancestral culture in his Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard series, I smile with glee. Cultural appropriation is not a concern of mine. Yes, he is gaining wealth and status from the use of my ancestry's culture, which with an Irish name like Riordan, he likely doesn't belong to, but I have no more ownership of my ancestors' culture than he does, and the form that he uses Norse mythology in is largely positive (yes, some of the gods are played for laughs, like Heimdall and Thor, but it's still spreading an overall-positive tone on Norse Mythology and I don't get offended by how those gods are portrayed), which has an overall positive effect on how people view/feel about my ancestral culture. It certainly is a good use of Norse mythology and runes, which is more than I can say for another (very infamous) modern usage of Norse runes and culture. (Obviously the line to determine "is this a bad way to use a part of another culture" isn't "it's fine if they're not white supremacists", I'm just pointing out that there are layers of appropriation and more nuance than it always being "that's my culture! You can't have/use it!")

I love Greek mythology. I feel no guilt using aspects of Greek mythology in my games (Satyrs, Griffons, Pegasi, Dryads and other Nymphs, Centaurs, Drakons, etc), as well as certain parts of other cultures (I have a Gargantuan Couatl in my games called the "Quetzalcouatl" from Aztec/Mayan mythology, I have Tiamat and Bahamut like the base game does, I use many parts of the bits and pieces of other languages that I know to form the languages of my worlds, and so on). IMO, using parts of different cultures is more often Cultural Appreciation than Cultural Appropriation. I typically see something as Cultural Appropriation when they take a part of another culture and claim it as their own without recognizing or appreciating its roots. If I said "I invented Quetzalcoatl, give me money and/or credit in order to use him and all names associated with him", that would be Cultural Appropriation. If I instead said, "Here's a cool D&D celestial creature that is a flying snake with feathers, known as Quetzalcoatl, inspired by the deity from Aztec and Mayan mythologies", IMO, that's not cultural appropriation (or at least not a negative form of it), it's appreciating the amazing and awesome parts of cultures around the world. I would feel the same way if someone took Thor and turned him into an awesome god-hero in a Superhero Cinematic Universe (it would be a Marvel if that happened, wouldn't it?).

That's just my two cents, though.

I would’t say Riordan is a good example, all things considered.

Language!

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I would’t say Riordan is a good example, all things considered.

That link doesn't work for me (it didn't the last time you posted it). Could you give me a summary?

 

[turnip_farmer]

(I'm always more puzzled/turned off when people give dwarves Scottish accents.)

Me too. Everyone knows that Dwarves have Yorkshire or Lancastrian accents.

 

[Aldarc]

Based on a few episodes of Um, Actually, I'd say Earthsea is little known among modern geeks, alas.

Did you have to crush my heart so savagely?

 

[Oofta]

Okay. Cultural Appropriation. This is a big, touchy topic.

I, too, am Norwegian (and Swedish, and a bit Danish). I'm also American, and was raised in a Christian religion, but my Norwegian ancestry is a not-insignificant part of my identity. My grandparents on my father's side (especially my grandfather) were both super into ancestry and family history, and I can tell you the story of how my family came across the Atlantic to America, were split up due to the immigration system, and although the long-lost siblings were never able to meet each other again in the USA, how their children were able to all come together again and keep in touch so that they'd never be lost again. I can tell you how my many-generations-back-Grandfather (whom I share a middle name with) was converted to Protestantism and how he emigrated to the USA from Norway to avoid religious persecution, while still keeping his Norse heritage a part of his identity. I'm descended from Vikings and Norse Kings (including the amusingly named "Olaf Olafsson", and another, "Olaf, King of Farts"), and my Grandfather would take me to local Norwegian Heritage clubs and make me eat Lutefisk (god, it tastes awful. For those that don't know, it's basically jello made of fish). I grew up on stories about Thor, Loki, Odin, Fenris Wolf, Dwarves, Elves, Einherjar, Valkyries, the Vanir, Aesir, and Jötunns.

I obviously cannot speak for all people of Norse heritage, especially those that still practice the worship of Norse deities, and I definitely cannot speak for members of other cultures and their views of cultural appropriation vs. appreciation, but when I see someone like Rick Riordan using my ancestral culture in his Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard series, I smile with glee. Cultural appropriation is not a concern of mine. Yes, he is gaining wealth and status from the use of my ancestry's culture, which with an Irish name like Riordan, he likely doesn't belong to, but I have no more ownership of my ancestors' culture than he does, and the form that he uses Norse mythology in is largely positive (yes, some of the gods are played for laughs, like Heimdall and Thor, but it's still spreading an overall-positive tone on Norse Mythology and I don't get offended by how those gods are portrayed), which has an overall positive effect on how people view/feel about my ancestral culture. It certainly is a good use of Norse mythology and runes, which is more than I can say for another (very infamous) modern usage of Norse runes and culture. (Obviously the line to determine "is this a bad way to use a part of another culture" isn't "it's fine if they're not white supremacists", I'm just pointing out that there are layers of appropriation and more nuance than it always being "that's my culture! You can't have/use it!")

I love Greek mythology. I feel no guilt using aspects of Greek mythology in my games (Satyrs, Griffons, Pegasi, Dryads and other Nymphs, Centaurs, Drakons, etc), as well as certain parts of other cultures (I have a Gargantuan Couatl in my games called the "Quetzalcouatl" from Aztec/Mayan mythology, I have Tiamat and Bahamut like the base game does, I use many parts of the bits and pieces of other languages that I know to form the languages of my worlds, and so on). IMO, using parts of different cultures is more often Cultural Appreciation than Cultural Appropriation. I typically see something as Cultural Appropriation when they take a part of another culture and claim it as their own without recognizing or appreciating its roots. If I said "I invented Quetzalcoatl, give me money and/or credit in order to use him and all names associated with him", that would be Cultural Appropriation. If I instead said, "Here's a cool D&D celestial creature that is a flying snake with feathers, known as Quetzalcoatl, inspired by the deity from Aztec and Mayan mythologies", IMO, that's not cultural appropriation (or at least not a negative form of it), it's appreciating the amazing and awesome parts of cultures around the world. I would feel the same way if someone took Thor and turned him into an awesome god-hero in a Superhero Cinematic Universe (it would be a Marvel if that happened, wouldn't it?).

That's just my two cents, though.

Do you know how lutefisk (aka fish jello) was first created and why so many emigrated to the upper midwest?

As the story goes, the Swedes were pretty upset with the Norwegians because they were fishing up all the cod in ocean and depleting the stocks. So one day the Swedes got together and snuck into the Norwegian's homes and stole all the cod and threw it up into the trees. Next morning the Norwegians woke up, found the dried out fish, ate it and loved it! Being polite, they of course thanked their neighbors for the help.

So the Swedes got really frustrated and took all the cod and soaked it in lye. Surely this would do the trick! Nope, the Norwegians woke up, ate and loved it! Thanked the Swedes profusely for being such good neighbors.

Finally the Swedes got really mad and just threw all the fish back into the bay. The Norwegians fished it out, soaked it in butter and declared that it was the best thing ever and called it lutefisk while inviting the Swedes over to enjoy the celebration.

Finally fed up, the Swedes stopped being polite and told the Norwegians to go to h-e-double toothpicks. So they all moved to Minnesota.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Magic has a logic to it all its own, such as function according to archetypes, rules of sympathetic magic, mental intention, and so on.

Sure, but D&D has almost never followed that logic at all.

D&D has pretty consistently ignored all that, beyond the odd spell component, and instead has treated the vast bulk of magic as essentially scientific - straightforward replicable processes, where if you do X, then Y will happen. So I don't feel like that's a major concern in D&D.