Empower vs. Maximize

[Grog]

The other major issue, which of course isn't part of the core rules, is what happens when the Improved Metamagic feat comes into play at epic levels. Assuming that you can stack Empower, it becomes a FAR better feat to have than is Maximize. For that matter, the lack of stackability of Maximize is a disadvantage compared to Empower even at non-epic levels.

On the other hand, if you take Improved Metamagic twice, you can get Maximize down to just a one level increase too. Then you could Maximize a spell and then Empower it several times, which would net you more damage, on average, than one extra Empower would.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

If a 7th-level spell does "10 points per level", and a 6th-level spell does "11 points per level", that doesn't mean the lower-level spell is any better. It still has less total effect, which is all that really matters during combat.

This is true, however, the method is still valid when comparing spells and meta-magiced spells of equivalent level to determine the best bang-for-your-buck.

 

[ruleslawyer]

On the other hand, if you take Improved Metamagic twice, you can get Maximize down to just a one level increase too. Then you could Maximize a spell and then Empower it several times, which would net you more damage, on average, than one extra Empower would.

Yes, but why waste the feat?

At that point, you could have saved on two feat slots (Maximize, second Imp Metamagic) and been able to Empower at +1 level cost. (This is the minimum you can spend anyway, because Empower can't drop to 0 level cost.) So then you're set; just Empower to the skies and the heck with Maximize.

Plus, Maximize and Empower don't synergize well anyway, as we all know.

 

[Fenes 2]

Do not forget that you will be able to use Empower spell earlier and therefore on more spells than maximize spells. When your wizard is happily slinging empowered fireballs at level 9 the other wizard has still 2 levels to go before he will be able to apply maximize to his fireballs.
Especially for sorcerers, imho, empower spell beats maximize spell any day.

And rolling a bucket of d6 is fun - just stating the damage does not compare...

 

[Numion]

Assuming you can only apply either feat once, it seems to depend on whether you like to take chances.

I look at it this way: which would you rather use, if you only have time to cast one spell? An unlucky Empowered Fireball could possibly do as few as 15 points. A Maximized Fireball always does 60 points, never less.

I know which I'd rather have, if I were about to be crushed by a rampaging dragon who had 30 hp left.

When you're rolling lot's of dice, like 10 in the case of fireball, the chances of getting 10 is quite small. The more dice you roll, the less likely it gets to roll the extremes.

 

[Stalker0]

When you're rolling lot's of dice, like 10 in the case of fireball, the chances of getting 10 is quite small. The more dice you roll, the less likely it gets to roll the extremes.

True, and the more it will suck when you finally roll that extreme

 

[apsuman]

I fall into the empower is better category.

First, you get to use it earlier. You can start using empower at level 6 (for a sorcerer) empowering your 1st level spells (can cantrips). But you would have to be level 8 to use maximize. You could empower a fireball at level 10 but would have to be level 12 to maximize it.

Plus, under current rules, you can multiple empower spells.


g!

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I think empower is beter but not by a huge amount. Maximize has a kind of cool factor IMO that evens it out a bit.

 

[Kaji]

My super crazy mage has both Empower and Maximize, and I find that I'm always using Empower and almost never using Maximize. The level cost is just too much. If I had slots to burn, it would be nice to have some maximized spells around, but I don't think I'd take Maximize for my next mage.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I like Empower better because the lower costs yields higher flexibility, plus you can potentially doubly Empower at higher levels. That means you get better long term value from the feat.

At 9th - 12th level, an Empowered Fireball or Lightning Bolt gives you very good bang for the buck.

The real fun is when you doubly Empower. Doubly Empowered Endurance or Fox's Cunning is pretty darn useful. Doubly Empowered Magic Missile is a poor man's energy substitution.