EN World City Project: Guilds and Organizations

[Conaill]

Ok, I'll eliminate the Workers Senate. <done> The social reformers can be part of a plothook for the Thieves Guild, or just plothooks spread across a number of NPCs.

University: I'm still in favor of it. Right now, GladiusNP's writeup for the Mages guildhouse already sounds like a small university - or at least a small college. This can all be part of a slightly larger university.

We're not talking about anything major here! The MMS demographics tables list ~70 students for a city the size of Mor's End. That probably includes 16 Wiz1's which would count as "graduate students" (Perhaps until they reach Wiz3 and gain 2rd level spells?) MMS also suggests 2 Professors, 3 Historians, 4 Sage/Scholars, 3 Librarians, and 4 Teachers (might not be at the University). That sounds like a pretty decent faculty for a small university/college...

 

[Conaill]

Thieves Guild: I like the idea of gangs, but I would prefer to have an overarching criminal organization as well. The gangs are more of a social organization, the Thieves Guild is more of a professional organization. The gangs are probably mainly for the youth. Eventually, the members will "graduate" into more serious work for the Guild.

 

[Lalato]

Ok, I'll eliminate the Workers Senate. <done> The social reformers can be part of a plothook for the Thieves Guild, or just plothooks spread across a number of NPCs.

University: I'm still in favor of it. Right now, GladiusNP's writeup for the Mages guildhouse already sounds like a small university - or at least a small college. This can all be part of a slightly larger university.

We're not talking about anything major here! The MMS demographics tables list ~70 students for a city the size of Mor's End. That probably includes 16 Wiz1's which would count as "graduate students" (Perhaps until they reach Wiz3 and gain 2rd level spells?) MMS also suggests 2 Professors, 3 Historians, 4 Sage/Scholars, 3 Librarians, and 4 Teachers (might not be at the University). That sounds like a pretty decent faculty for a small university/college...

Yes... but that doesn't mean they're all housed in one place. Most, if not all, of those students would be tutored children of the rich. Historians, Sages, Librarians, Teachers and Professors don't necessarily have to be part of a university.

This is a frontier city that hasn't been around all that long. That is under constant threat of raids from goblinoids. Why on earth would there be a university in such a place?

Now... if you told me there was a plot hook regarding someone trying to start a college... I could buy that. But a fully developed university does not seem internally consistent with the current theme of Mor's End. If that theme changes, however, universities might exist.

As for the Wizards Guild... I would prefer there not be one, but if there has to be one... then the guild should not be involved politically with the city. It's far too easy for wizards to abuse their power... and to say that this particular group of wizards would never do that is to deny human nature.

--sam

 

[Lalato]

I guess I just don't understand why everything needs to have a larger organization. One of the themes of Mor's End is that the city is rather chaotic. If every single person belongs to some power group... then where is the chaos?

Just a thought...
--sam

 

[Conaill]

Lalato, my old enemy...

Which of the two are you least opposed to, a Mages Guild or a small University? I still want to collect some more input from other people, but we will probably wind up having at least one of the two...

 

[GladiusNP]

Rogue:
1x12, 1x9, 2x6, 2x5, 4x3, 12x2, 24x1

I think we already have a couple of these guys for the thieves guild statted out. Geeve Sneeble, Duncan Fletcher, Eldrytch Chaminade, Barth Olbee, and Randall Whipwreck are all written out, and probably are integral players in the Thieves' Guild scene, whatever it ends up being. IIRC Raven Moonhome is also part of the guild or has associations with it.

As regards an overarching structure, Tonguez mentioned a core of fences a little while ago - I liked this as a model, with this 'Gentleman's club' running the local show. They may not be the best thieves, but they tend to be the bosses - if they decide not to buy from you, you're stuck with stolen goods. These fences probably control most of the smuggling, bribery to the council factors/port agents, and who from the gangs is given 'favoured status.'

Without this 'favoured status' you won't be able to sell your loot.
People with it - Geeve, Duncan, Eldrytch, the 9th level and 12th level guy - who may not be the ring-leaders of the thieves' guild.

This is probably somewhat looser than the traditional iron-fisted rule of the guild master. People who pick-pockets, and muggers and protection rackets probably get away with not listening to or doing much with the fences. The big money jobs, like smuggling, burglary, and so on, are all controlled by the fences however, and if you are on their bad side, you don't have a prayer of being successful. I also like how a looser structure means that thieves can have real, genuine hostility towards each other.

As a general note, I'd say that the more powerful thieves aren't big on murder. Maybe the fences refuse to deal with serial killers.

With the university, I'm easy. I thought we were using the small, backwater group of researchers who occasionally give lectures, but I'm not fussed. Mor's End is pretty small, and if a university doesn't fit, shoe-horning one in may not be useful. That said, the government affairs thread has gone over this (see yragthecarefuls post on page 1 for the model I was going off for the wizard's guild post) I think a small university could be useful.

Wizards and politics. I think this is one of those points we can debate forever, to little effect. We should probably arbitrarily decide whether or not there is a guild, and what it's influence is.

 

[Lalato]

So we meet again... My name is Lalato Montoya... you killed my trade route... prepare to die...

As a concept... I'm least opposed to the Mages Guild so long as it is a non-political organization.

I would go so far as to say that the Mages don't have a guild building or tower. They probably meet at the highest level member's home... or better yet... they only meet outside the city in a "neutral" place. They meet to learn from each other... but they don't fully trust each other. They don't govern or police the actions of visiting wizards. That's not to say that the city hasn't enlisted their help. It's just not something they are mandated to do.

Remember this is a chaotic place... we can't have too many people policing the populace.

--sam

 

[Lalato]

With the university, I'm easy. I thought we were using the small, backwater group of researchers who occasionally give lectures, but I'm not fussed. Mor's End is pretty small, and if a university doesn't fit, shoe-horning one in may not be useful. That said, the government affairs thread has gone over this (see yragthecarefuls post on page 1 for the model I was going off for the wizard's guild post) I think a small university could be useful.

Which relates to my one-room school concept. There might be a 2 or 3 Sages and Historians working together to learn what they can about something (the warrens perhaps)... but I doubt they would have more than one room... and lectures might be attended by a few bards, a few nobles. I just doubt there would be much structure to it. It might even be word of mouth only.

Despite everything I posted previously... if the overwhelming feeling amongst the group was that a university was definitely going to be in Mor's End... I would accept it. I just want to make sure I point out the problems I see... and where I can offer solutions.

I hate to be the naysayer... and Conaill is the Minister of this thread. In the end he's the tie breaker.

--sam

 

[Lalato]

Just thinking about the whole idea that Mor's End is a chaotic place.

It's the type of place where you can't trust that many people. Sure... if you're lucky enough to be a craftsmen, you can be in a guild... but for most people, you can only trust yourself and, perhaps, your family.

Even then... you have to watch your back when you walk the streets. You never know what kind of con man or pick pocket is going to walk past you.

Money is king in Mor's End... people will weather goblinoid raids for it. They will fight for it. They will cheat for it. They will even sell themselves for it.

For all the wealth that passes through Mor's End... life is still hard. Mor's End is the type of place where a prince can become a pauper... and just easily... a pauper can become a prince.

--sam

 

[Conaill]

We also need to have a library. If we integrate the mages guildhouse with the city library, that would get pretty close to being a "one-room school" - except bigger of course...