Enberoth: Industrial Era D&D (5e) (V0.1). Looking for feedback/editors!

[dgscott]

Hello,

I've finished the first version of Enberoth, which offers a guide to running D&D in a Victorian-level tech setting. It contains:
-A brief historical background, explaining the discrepancy between Faerûn and Enberoth
-Minor class modifications to accommodate the new features.
-11 new backgrounds
-15 new feats (a couple of which were admittedly taken from WotC UA)
-Price adjustments for existing items (industry tends to change things)
-Lots, and lots of new equipment, including weapons, armor, adventuring gear, siege weapons, and more.


...It should be noted that this is NOT a steam punk world guide, though it can actually serve as a solid base for adding more steam punk features.


The rules for firearms and bombs have also been changed slightly from how they are in the DMG to make them more balanced along with the other weapons (though they are still superior, just less so). I've play tested my firearms in conjunction with non-firearm wielding characters in my game, and they seem to balance out fine. Also, the only artwork in there that is mine are the sketches of the Derringer and the scatter pistol. The rest belongs to other people. I'll look up each of the artists and add them in the credits once the full version is released.


You can get the PDF here.


I would love some feedback! If you would like to be an editor, let me know (best way is to email me at dgscott91@gmail.com), and we'll see if it's a suitable arrangement. If our efforts are productive together, I'll welcome you as an editor for my big project I'm currently working on, a Curse of Strahd homebrew sequel, if you're interested.

Possible future features:
-Magic items
-More background
-More artwork
-More class features


I hope you all enjoy this supplement and find it useful.

 

[Blue]

Stream of consciousness while I read though. If I don't mention something, it's because I liked it. I won't clutter with "good jobs" unless it's really good, but do assume I'm saying them.

Formatting: Nice art.

Formatting: Wish there were page numbers to reference in my comments.

Classes, general: Like the updated equipment - good attention to detail that I haven't seen elsewhere.

Cleric / War: I don't understand the change to Spiritual Weapon. It doesn't apply to any weapons, it makes one. Are you saying it now can make ranged weapons? That's a boost in effectiveness if instead of just being able to move 20 feet to engage, it can move 20' and attack anyone withing the ranged weapon's range.

Fighter / Battlemaster: Reflexive attack is more powerful then Riposte. It has a much larger number of triggers and can those can trigger off a larger pool of foes because they don't have to be attacking you. On the down side, it doesn't add to damage. Note: with how ubiquitous the triggers are, this gets pretty crazy if a rogue has it, either through multiclassing or the Martial Adept feat, since they will have another chance to add in sneak attack.

Evasive Fire lets you move before your attack, after your attack, huh? I think it's nifty but needs some clarity.

Backgrounds / General: I'm liking your background special abilities. While many of them are DM guidance, some mechanical support would be useful like how Artist & Diplomat might affect skill checks, and some more direction on what Guide's ability should do in play.

General: You have a flare for memorable yet meaningful names. Callsign for the Agent's special ability, Akimbo for firing two guns. Very good.

Feats / (UA weapon feats): I'm not a fan of +1 to hit, those became a feat tax in several earlier editions and it's even more valuable in 5e due to bounded accuracy.

Fell Handed: In addition to the above, you now need to work out both dice of advantage and both dice of disadvantage for every attack. This slows down the game. Yes, I know it's a UA feat - but it's a horrible one.

High Noon: Flavorful, I like it. Is the phrase "make up to as many attacks as you have bullets in your revolver's cylinder on as just as many targets" mean that each attack is against a different target, you can't unload into the same person? For the second bullet point, when you say "before your turn" do you mean "right before your turn" (so it's in your initiative order, but you regain your reaction when your turn starts") or "anytime before your turn" (so you can always act first regardless of initiative).

Swashbuckler: do you intend the first ability to be usable when you only have out is a pistol - do you need to have a melee weapon? do you intend the second ability to work when you attack with a light ranged weapon like a hand crossbow or does it need to be a light melee weapon?

Marksman: Hmm, that's a big bonus that might come up every round. This is powerful.

Overdraw: The -5/+10 is commonly considered as overpowered, especially with things like the Archery fighting style to offset. This increases the ratio of damage. The overdraw attack pat of this seems well overpowerered.

Quick-Thinker: Love it. Above and beyond the "good jobs" I mentioned I'm giving for anything I don't comment on.

Rapid Reload: Since it seems to be the vehicle for it, do you also want it to remove the loading property so you can rapid reload a crossbow as well?

Rifled Reflexes. Still feel +1 to hit doesn't belong. The extra attack comes with a ridiculous number of triggers so it's effectively an extra attack every round, that would stack with a bonus action extra attack. With extra cheese if used by a rogue since these are happening during someone else's turn so you can get full sneak attack. Sorry, both parts of this aren't good, and the second part is broken just by itself.

Equipment / Armor: Ballistic armor - you break some rules about max dex and armor type, but do so in a new-take yet balanced way. Good, I like it.

Equipment / Weapons: Like you firearms take.

Reload could use a bit of clarity - do you do it after each shot, up to 5 times (and then what), or can you fire up to X times and then need to reload? Also, losing an action or losing your movement don't seem to be evenly balanced.

Scatter is area effect? If so, wouldn't a dex save be a better fit?

Equipment: Much to love in here. I like the thought put into some like the concealed holster. Should medicine also give a chance to cure disease? Dcotor's tools requires odd bookkeeping, of damage taken since last time used before long rest.

Legal: Don't see any attribution for the art.

All in all a lot of good ideas! A few places to tighten up language to make sure it's clear to the reader, and a few places to give a once over for balance, but I like the feel. Makes me want to run Deadlands again.

And if it's not your art, get permission and give attribution!

 

[dgscott]

Thanks for the reply, Blue. That was some really helpful feedback. I’ll address some of the points you brought up

-The artwork. Yes, it isn’t yet credited. I was in kind of a rush to get this pre-release out there, so I didn’t seek out every artist. I fully intend on crediting them on the next (pre) release.

-Reflexive attack. Do you think this maneuver would be more balanced if I just removed trigger (a) (misses ranged attack) and trigger (e) (fells all enemies within 5 feet)?

-I’ll try to avoid the +1’s to weapon attacks.

-High noon. The phrase "make up to as many attacks as you have bullets in your revolver's cylinder on as just as many targets" is intentionally vague. It can mean multiple targets, or one target. I want to allow a little bit of DM interpretation on that one. And as for when the reaction can take place, I mean literally any time in that round of combat before you take your first turn because it is a reaction.

-Swashbuckler. You don’t need a melee weapon to negate the disadvantage, but I’ll fix the next bit about the light weapon in the off hand. It is in fact, supposed to only be melee weapons.
-The issue with the Sharpshooter feat with the -5/+10 deal is that it’s OP at lower levels, but underpowered at lower levels. I don’t think the tradeoff is inherently OP at the right level. So, what I’ve done is adjusted it to be more level specific. The reason that the ratio shifts more toward damage at later levels is because one’s attack bonus and damage don’t increase proportionally. At higher levels, one’s damage goes waaaay up, but one’s attack bonus is more steady. But I’ve kept it even at lower levels.

-Marksman. Yes, it is powerful, but it also really limits one’s actions. Consider it’s a feat, I think it’s pretty balanced.

-Rapid reload. Nah, guns only. There’s crossbow expert for crossbows.

-Rifled reflexes. I understand your concerns with this feat. I’d already made feats for pistol users, shotgun users, and snipers, but I also wanted to have one for a straight rifleman. I’m definitely open to suggestions.

-Reloading. You gotta reload when your gun is empty. Like in real life. I’ll see if I can’t make that more clear

-Scatter. Not an area effect. How it works is in the weapon properties, in case you missed it.

-Medicine. That’s a good idea. What I think I’ll do is have two different kinds of medicine, one for diseases, and one for healing.

Anyways, thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Kalaron]

I will heartily check this later, as I am runnign avictorian type Curse of Strahd atm.

Have you checked Masque of the Red Death? It's a Ravenloft setting/mod/hack made back in the 90's. It is victorian horror with a heavy retool of classes, magic and technology. I heartily reccomend you do if you haven0't!

 

[Oofta]

Finally made some time to look at this. It's interesting because I've been toying with similar ideas, although I haven't gotten very far yet. I agree with what blue stated, and had a few additions.

Classes
Paladins don't get firearms? Is this a thematic choice? At the very least I would think there should be an oath - Lawgiver or similar - that would grant it.

I assume Monster hunter is unfinished?

What's the logic of giving sorcerers pistols?

Backgrounds
Generally speaking I wouldn't give a background a mechanical benefit like you did with Medic.

Feats
A lot of your feats have +1 to hit and start feeling like a feat tax. Especially the feats for firearms since they're already superior. I can kind of seeing giving a bonus to people with "old school" weapons, firearms not so much.

Hard Target: this feat feels ... underwhelming. Maybe it's just me.

Marksman: I probably wouldn't allow Marksman with shotguns. Firing a shotgun is different from a rifle or pistol, it's more "point and click".

Overdraw: ok, this is my personal prejudice but I really dislike the -5 for +10 feats and while this is probably better balanced than sharpshooter (which also ignores cover), at higher levels taking -6 for +18 damage is huge. That, and can you stack this with sharpshooter to get +28 damage against your low AC creatures?

Equipment
The +1 to hit with firearms vs different armor types feels finicky. I understand what you're trying to get at, I'm just not sure it's worth the extra overhead. Also, how do you handle someone with rings of protection or similar that add to AC? What about barbarians?

Not sure I agree with your reloading instead of moving. To me reloading is, and should be, a pretty significant disadvantage. Having to take a feat (special training) to reload as a bonus action seems like a fair balance.

Not sure on the scatter shot - I think blue mentioned this as well. If it's cone, consider slightly lower damage and a reflex save. I would personally consider a sawed off shotgun instead of the scatter pistol.

Can you shoot both barrels of a double barrel shotgun for double damage?

A note about flintlock pistols - they were often used as clubs. Probably just trivia, but it would be a reason to use them.

 

[dgscott]

Paladins don't get firearms? Is this a thematic choice? At the very least I would think there should be an oath - Lawgiver or similar - that would grant it.

It's thematic, but I do agree that a paladin oath which allows for the use of firearms would be cool.

I assume Monster hunter is unfinished?

Yes. In fact, I had a few different subclasses, but they were almost exactly the same as the unearthed arcana ones, so I figured if people wanted to play with those subclasses, they can just find them there,

A lot of your feats have +1 to hit and start feeling like a feat tax.[/quote
I agree. It's something I'm going to try to find alternatives for, though I might keep it with shotgun surgeon.

Marksman: I probably wouldn't allow Marksman with shotguns. Firing a shotgun is different from a rifle or pistol, it's more "point and click".

Have you ever fired a shotgun? I have, and I can assure you that aiming definitely improves accuracy a lot. Sure, there's still a spread, but IRL, at 20 feet, that spread is the size of a softball.

Overdraw: ok, this is my personal prejudice but I really dislike the -5 for +10 feats and while this is probably better balanced than sharpshooter (which also ignores cover), at higher levels taking -6 for +18 damage is huge. That, and can you stack this with sharpshooter to get +28 damage against your low AC creatures?

Actually, you can't stack it with sharpshooter. I mentioned that at the beginning of the feats section; it's a replacement feat.

The +1 to hit with firearms vs different armor types feels finicky. I understand what you're trying to get at, I'm just not sure it's worth the extra overhead. Also, how do you handle someone with rings of protection or similar that add to AC? What about barbarians?

The idea of firearms not having any penetration bonus to armor just didn't sit right with me. As for the the ring, that is magical, so the bonus wouldn't count against that. If the barbarian is wearing light or medium armor, then the bonus would apply. If the barbarian was wearing no armor, then it's natural armor, and therefore would not.

Not sure I agree with your reloading instead of moving. To me reloading is, and should be, a pretty significant disadvantage. Having to take a feat (special training) to reload as a bonus action seems like a fair balance.

The origal rules for firearms in the DMG allowed for reloading as a bonus action. I thought that was too little, but I also think that only an action is too much (unless you have the feat).

Not sure on the scatter shot - I think blue mentioned this as well. If it's cone, consider slightly lower damage and a reflex save. I would personally consider a sawed off shotgun instead of the scatter pistol

I really, really want to avoid dex saves on firearm attacks, because they ignore armor all together. A cone is waaay to wide of a spread. Like, holy , your shotgun isn't a megaphone that emits pellets. I personally like "scatter", and don't intend on changing it.
If you're just talking about the scatter pistol, even something that small doesn't have a spread that wide, and even if it did, it doesn't shoot enough pellets to make it effective. The scatter pistol is there rather than a sawed-off shotgun because I wanted to give the pistol category something special. Still, a sawed-off is worth considering.

Can you shoot both barrels of a double barrel shotgun for double damage

I covered that in the "two barrels" feature. Essentially, yes. You can fire both barrels and roll double damage dice if you hit.

A note about flintlock pistols - they were often used as clubs. Probably just trivia, but it would be a reason to use them.

Certainly would be a fitting improvised weapon

 

[Oofta]

Have you ever fired a shotgun? I have, and I can assure you that aiming definitely improves accuracy a lot. Sure, there's still a spread, but IRL, at 20 feet, that spread is the size of a softball.

I have used pistols, rifles and shotguns. I'm probably just prejudiced because I always used shotguns for moving targets (clay pigeons) and pistols/rifles for stationary. Many an aluminum can felt my wrath in my youth. I just see the not moving giving an advantage in longer range sniping type situations.

The idea of firearms not having any penetration bonus to armor just didn't sit right with me. As for the the ring, that is magical, so the bonus wouldn't count against that. If the barbarian is wearing light or medium armor, then the bonus would apply. If the barbarian was wearing no armor, then it's natural armor, and therefore would not.

It may be somewhat more realistic. I'm not sure i agree and I simply don't think it's worth the headache. It feels like "don't bother using anything other than firearms". Oh, and the question about the ring was how it would work when someone has armor and magical protection. I would simply assume that armor has been reinforced to withstand the ammunition of the day.

Besides, D&D isn't overly concerned with realism. A sword would not be very effective against plate armor, hammers and maces were much more effective. Yet we don't have anything that models that aspect.

I really, really want to avoid dex saves on firearm attacks, because they ignore armor all together. A cone is waaay to wide of a spread. Like, holy , your shotgun isn't a megaphone that emits pellets. I personally like "scatter", and don't intend on changing it.
If you're just talking about the scatter pistol, even something that small doesn't have a spread that wide, and even if it did, it doesn't shoot enough pellets to make it effective. The scatter pistol is there rather than a sawed-off shotgun because I wanted to give the pistol category something special. Still, a sawed-off is worth considering.


I covered that in the "two barrels" feature. Essentially, yes. You can fire both barrels and roll double damage dice if you hit.

I missed the "two barrels".

I guess the real issue I have is that

1. Your scatter gun pistol would kick like a mule, especially since it uses 12 gauge (I think there are pistols that shoot 410 shells). I'm not overly concerned about realism, but even a sawed off shotgun would be a handful. Maybe it should have a strength requirement?
2. The "scatter" just doesn't feel quite right. Maybe it should get rid of the penalty for shooting someone up close? Do normal damage up to 10 feet and then allow you to target two adjacent creatures for half damage?

In any case, if I didn't say it before it looks like you've put a lot of thought into this. Good job.

 

[dgscott]

I just see the not moving giving an advantage in longer range sniping type situations. [/qoute]
You've got a point

It may be somewhat more realistic. I'm not sure i agree and I simply don't think it's worth the headache. It feels like "don't bother using anything other than firearms".

Well, that's the thing. Firearms are superior to more primitive weapons. That's why we use them. That said, the disadvantage lies in that if you have a ranged weapon of any sort, if someone gets up close, you're vulnerable to melee attacks. That said, I'm open to suggestions when it comes to giving melee attackers more advantages in combat, provided that doesn't involve making a dagger on par with a 9mm pistol. I'm also open to suggestions for other ways to buff the attacks against armor, but I don't see a better way than a simple +1.

Sort-of related: was looking at the "arcane artillery" homebrew that's actually fairly popular. The author doesn't even know a clip from a magazine. SMH.

Besides, D&D isn't overly concerned with realism. A sword would not be very effective against plate armor, hammers and maces were much more effective. Yet we don't have anything that models that aspect.

This is true, but I still think we should try to be realistic if it doesn't cause problems with the gameplay.

Your scatter gun pistol would kick like a mule, especially since it uses 12 gauge (I think there are pistols that shoot 410 shells). I'm not overly concerned about realism, but even a sawed off shotgun would be a handful. Maybe it should have a strength requirement?

It's a 1-shot weapon before you have to reload, so yeah, your arm is gonna go flying, but it's not like you have to keep the gun pointed at what you're shooting after.

The "scatter" just doesn't feel quite right. Maybe it should get rid of the penalty for shooting someone up close? Do normal damage up to 10 feet and then allow you to target two adjacent creatures for half damage?

If you're shooting within 5 feet, the spread is going to be nigh non-existent, so it wouldn't make sense to do that. Besides, that's part of the "shotgun surgeon" feat. Also, I'm not keen on the idea of half-damages for regular attacks. And again, 10 feet, the spreads is going to be so tiny there's no way you could hit 2 targets.

In any case, if I didn't say it before it looks like you've put a lot of thought into this. Good job.

Thanks. By the way, don't take my explaining the rationale behind my decisions as an unwillingness to accept criticism. I definitely aim to change some things in light of the feedback you've given me.

 

[Oofta]

It's a 1-shot weapon before you have to reload, so yeah, your arm is gonna go flying, but it's not like you have to keep the gun pointed at what you're shooting after.

I'd be more worried about having an arm left after firing the weapon!

I'm just throwing some ideas out for how to handle scatter shot. Maybe its just that about the only person I can imagine using the scatter pistol would be HellBoy. Not sure there is a better option.

I think a fundamental issue is that guns or fairly high level magic should dominate.

Except there's a difference between what's fun and what's realistic.

Because seriously, why would anyone go into combat with an axe instead of a pistol? You might have a sword as a backup, but your primary weapon? Psshh.

This isn't only an issue with games, it's an issue with any fiction that tries to combine guns with swords. Star Wars does it because they ignore shotguns and grenades while using magic swords that can deflect the plasma "bullets".

But take a look at the "Arrow" TV show as an example. I can't tell you how many times my wife and I say something along the lines of "What? Why would they just not shoot them? Why are the bad guys running up to team Arrow with a perfectly good gun and try to use it as a club? WTF?"

Or Star Trek. Seriously, klingons use a double sword? Why? Just zap them with your handy phaser and be done with it.

Which is not saying that I have a better option.

Some thoughts
- A lot of the monsters could have damage reduction or immunity to anything but silver. Bullets would get expensive fast.
- Assume that relatively speaking monsters are a lot tougher than your average person, something that would take a person out would barely phase most monster.
- Make guns and ammunition prohibitively expensive. That limits the common man on the street, but also lessens the feel you're going for.
- Have situations where guns don't work because of magic.

In any game that combines swords, sorcery and firearms better than flintlocks and muskets I'm not sure many people would play a class that doesn't have access to firearms. Maybe wizards ... but even then why (with your rules) play a wizard over a sorcerer? The pistol is going to be more effective than most cantrips.

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept. I've struggled with how to implement it myself. Maybe playtesting would show that my protests are pointless. I just see a campaign where guns and high dex would be king with maybe a sorcerer thrown into the mix now and then. But barbarians? Paladins? Fighting clerics with anything other than the war domain? Don't see it happening, or any strength based characters.

Anyway, good luck and let us know if you make any modifications.

 

[dgscott]

Maybe playtesting would show that my protests are pointless

Believe it or not, I actually playtested this quite a bit, and guns were even more powerful at the time (+2 against armor instead of +1) and it worked out quite well because, as soon as the distance was closed, ranged fighters were in trouble. That said, I think I will take your advice and change reloading to be a full action. Also, the attacks made by the PCs weren't too overpowered compared to the melee NPCs, though I did adjust the CR to be just a little higher.