encountering a villian early, deflate him? Or give as is?
- Thread starter fba827
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Bingo. Sandbox game = you warned them.
If you can in any way work in an NPC into the fight that the PCs are emotionally attached to, do so. And kill 'em. Make the PCs realize how screwed they are.
But yeah, try not to kill them. Teach them the lesson first ("know when to grind those levels, son!"). If that doesn't work, then kill 'em. Kill 'em all. Have their backup PCs come in with said monster unleashed on the world because the previous PCs got too trigger happy.
White Tornado
Explorer
I think the battle will be very unsatisfying for the PC's if they take the backseat and let the Royal Guard do most of the fighting, regardless of the BBEG's level and powers. So why can't you give the BBEG some help? Perhaps a small army of undead, a gnoll cult, orc mercenaries, or just evil humans. Let the Royal Guard burst in first and fight the skeleton army (or whatever is appropiate) in a fierce battle. After a few rounds of heavy fighting, all the while PC's standing in the back, let the BBEG appear (teleport? stealth? secret door? invisibility?) and attack the PC's. Unless he is a Solo at least four levels higher, the PC's should be able to stand their ground. They might run. Or one or two Royal Guards leave the battle with the skeleton army to attack the BBEG and assist the PC's, and will be the first to get whacked by BBEG.
Years ago, my party wanted to fight two nemesises who had sided with an evil thieves' guild. They took a bunch of "honorable thieves", and a bunch of monk followers, so I added in more evil thieves. There was a massive fight going on between evil thieves and "good" thieves and monks, while the thief/swashbuckler PC was dueling his nemesis in a clock tower (stole that from a movie), and the other PC's were running around the building to find and fight their illusionist nemesis. It was great! (as a sidenote, I just narrated the fight between thieves and monks, rolling a die every now and then to see which side was doing better)
Years ago, my party wanted to fight two nemesises who had sided with an evil thieves' guild. They took a bunch of "honorable thieves", and a bunch of monk followers, so I added in more evil thieves. There was a massive fight going on between evil thieves and "good" thieves and monks, while the thief/swashbuckler PC was dueling his nemesis in a clock tower (stole that from a movie), and the other PC's were running around the building to find and fight their illusionist nemesis. It was great! (as a sidenote, I just narrated the fight between thieves and monks, rolling a die every now and then to see which side was doing better)
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Kingreaper
Adventurer
If the BBEG is meant to be much higher level, the only way the PCs should reasonably beat him is through trickery.
If he can be killed by the guard, why do the PCs need to be involved? Make it so the guards can't beat him without the PCs helping. A trap that must be broken out of, some part of the scenery that must be leveraged for advantage.
If he can be killed by the guard, why do the PCs need to be involved? Make it so the guards can't beat him without the PCs helping. A trap that must be broken out of, some part of the scenery that must be leveraged for advantage.
Yep. Let the guy waste the guards, let the PCs know they got the guards killed, then let them go do more appropriate things for a few levels. If they persist, then have at them with all the villain can do. Maybe the dice will go wild and let the party win.
Doug McCrae
Legend
Interesting question. Here are some more options:
1) Have the PCs play the royal guard too, making the die rolls etc.
2) Change the mini-boss so it becomes two separate fights, maybe he has allies or something. Focus only on the part of the fight the PCs are involved in, don't roll any dice for the royal guard, their actions are just handled by description. You can decide if you want the guard to win or lose their part of the battle. I'd have the PCs get to do the exciting part of the fight, squaring off against the actual boss, while the guard go up against his allies.
3) Problems arise with the royal guard. They have a traitor in the ranks, or are called away on more important business elsewhere. Perhaps the king, or the wicked captain in charge of the guard, decide this isn't worth risking his men's lives over. Maybe the king is fickle.
4) The mini-boss has heard about this large force planning to attack him, probably due to the afore-mentioned traitor, and legged it before the PCs arrive. This is quite good because it allows you to delay the final big battle until a story appropriate point and build up more anticipation.
Given the players are looking forward to the mini-boss, but you want to avoid having NPCs do most of the work I'd go with either #2 or your own suggestion to use a weakened mini-boss but have all the royal guard taken out by the magic power of Plot.
1) Have the PCs play the royal guard too, making the die rolls etc.
2) Change the mini-boss so it becomes two separate fights, maybe he has allies or something. Focus only on the part of the fight the PCs are involved in, don't roll any dice for the royal guard, their actions are just handled by description. You can decide if you want the guard to win or lose their part of the battle. I'd have the PCs get to do the exciting part of the fight, squaring off against the actual boss, while the guard go up against his allies.
3) Problems arise with the royal guard. They have a traitor in the ranks, or are called away on more important business elsewhere. Perhaps the king, or the wicked captain in charge of the guard, decide this isn't worth risking his men's lives over. Maybe the king is fickle.
4) The mini-boss has heard about this large force planning to attack him, probably due to the afore-mentioned traitor, and legged it before the PCs arrive. This is quite good because it allows you to delay the final big battle until a story appropriate point and build up more anticipation.
Given the players are looking forward to the mini-boss, but you want to avoid having NPCs do most of the work I'd go with either #2 or your own suggestion to use a weakened mini-boss but have all the royal guard taken out by the magic power of Plot.
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I don't know if this is feasible in the circumstances (you mentioned the miniboss was tied to his current location), but would it be possible to do the following scenario?
1) PCs run the Royal Guard as well as their own characters.
2) Spectacular combat takes place.
3) Miniboss has an escape hatch that lets him slip away at the last moment. His plans are foiled for the moment, but he'll be back, and the PCs will have to fight him alone when he returns.
1) PCs run the Royal Guard as well as their own characters.
2) Spectacular combat takes place.
3) Miniboss has an escape hatch that lets him slip away at the last moment. His plans are foiled for the moment, but he'll be back, and the PCs will have to fight him alone when he returns.
Leave the mini-boss as-is.
Have the player's play their PC's.
Let the Royal Guard handle the mini-boss.
Give the mini-boss some heretofore unrevealed 'special henchmen' for the PC's to tangle with. Remember that the PC's need to be protagonists, even if they aren't the neccessarily the big damn heroes.
If you go this route, don't make the special-guest henchman too tough... you don't want to give the PC's the impression that their choice to involve the Royal Guard was irrelevant. Doing that should make the encounter easier. The special henchman are more for the surprise factor and to keep the PC's from being purely spectators in the climactic scene.
Have the player's play their PC's.
Let the Royal Guard handle the mini-boss.
Give the mini-boss some heretofore unrevealed 'special henchmen' for the PC's to tangle with. Remember that the PC's need to be protagonists, even if they aren't the neccessarily the big damn heroes.
If you go this route, don't make the special-guest henchman too tough... you don't want to give the PC's the impression that their choice to involve the Royal Guard was irrelevant. Doing that should make the encounter easier. The special henchman are more for the surprise factor and to keep the PC's from being purely spectators in the climactic scene.
