Encountering anti-D&D sentiment

[CrusaderX]

There a lot of folks that believe all kinds of crap just because people told it to them. In my experience, many of those people are gamers, who are just as dogmatic, unreasonable and irrational as anyone else.

There's a pervasive mythology that gamers are somehow more intelligent, more enlightened, more open-minded, or in some other sense superior to other people. I don't believe it for a minute.

And gamers are equally reactionary and irrational especially in regards to the "conservative Christian majority" if there really is such a thing, that "attacks them" because of misguided beliefs in Satanism.

My experience says you're exactly right.

 

[Mark]

Mark, to take absurd irrelevant reductionism with more of the same,

DUDE, ARE YOU ON CRACK?

That's not confrontational.

Truly, though. What about if you told someone you met that you were a writer for D&D and it turned out they were someone who actual is? Wouldn't you kinda feel like a lamer for making the claim to someone who actually jumped through all the hoops it takes to get there for real?

 

[takyris]

Well, no, not really. If it were someone I was talking to in the context of ENWorld, I wouldn't say it that way in the first place -- since I'd mentioned context before -- and if it were someone I was talking to in line at the coffee shop, I'd switch gears with, "Oh, wow, yeah, I write for ____". I wouldn't feel like a lamer.

Just like I wouldn't naturally assume that anyone who says, "I work for the Chicago Bears" is a player on the team and then call them a darn liar when they later clarify by saying they work in the team's contract negotiations department.

Just like I say "karate" when initially asked what weird mumbo-jumbo I'm doing in the park, and only elaborate to "Kenpo Karate" or "Kenpo, a martial art like Karate" if it became necessary -- but will, upon realizing I'm talking to someone who knows a lot about martial arts, say, "Oh, okay -- yeah, this is a derivative of Ed Parker's American Kenpo, so it's sort of a Chinese/Japanese hybrid, and it has some stuff that looks like Escrima at the higher levels..." I wasn't lying before. I was simply giving the level of information that was socially appropriate at the time.

You seem to feel that this is a great deal of work and not worth the trouble. It's never been a problem for me. Maybe I'm just a natural social chameleon.

 

[Napftor]

Mark, to take absurd irrelevant reductionism with more of the same,

DUDE, ARE YOU ON CRACK?

No need for this. Both sides have valid points, but I'll be sticking with my introductory phrase while at work. It's easier for me since I'm more in an assembly line type of environment, waiting on one person with another right behind them. If I had more time, or were in a more relaxed environment, then, sure, I'd not say "I write for D&D", instead opting for the role-playing game explanation. I've used both ways to describe my "hobby-turned-quasi-profession" (another phrase used on the customer in question).

But there is some genuinely interesting stuff going on in this thread so please continue.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I didn't realize you'd written for WotC or TSR.

I usually respond by saying something like, "Are you familiar with the Conan movies that star Arnold Schartzeneggar? Or the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter Movies? Well, there are games based on the type of fiction on which those types of movies are based. In them you take on the part of a character and work with others as a team to overcome obstacles and hardships, solving puzzles and mysteries, fighting against injustice or evil sometimes, to reach certain goals."

First of all, if its used with D&D, one could call it a D&D book.

Second, yoink. Nice explanation.

 

[Mark]

Well, no, not really. If it were someone I was talking to in the context of ENWorld, I wouldn't say it that way in the first place -- since I'd mentioned context before --

And, of course, that's not what I was discussing.

-- and if it were someone I was talking to in line at the coffee shop, I'd switch gears with, "Oh, wow, yeah, I write for ____". I wouldn't feel like a lamer.

Well, "lamer" in the sense that it would be an awkward moment is my point.

Just like I wouldn't naturally assume that anyone who says, "I work for the Chicago Bears" is a player on the team and then call them a darn liar when they later clarify by saying they work in the team's contract negotiations department.

And, or course, I wrote that if they said "I'm with the team" because, to me, that would be the situational equivalent of "I write for D&D" as opposed to them saying "I work for the Chicago Bears" or someone more accurately saying "I write Swords and Sorcery game supplements." If the listener does know what D&D is, then they will know that you write a D&D-like game from that explanation. If they haven't ever heard of D&D, then you've given them some information that actually makes some sense. And you won't have the gear-shifting problem that comes from misleadnig them, albeit unintentionally from speaking inaccurately.

Just like I say "karate" when initially asked what weird mumbo-jumbo I'm doing in the park, and only elaborate to "Kenpo Karate" or "Kenpo, a martial art like Karate" if it became necessary -- but will, upon realizing I'm talking to someone who knows a lot about martial arts, say, "Oh, okay -- yeah, this is a derivative of Ed Parker's American Kenpo, so it's sort of a Chinese/Japanese hybrid, and it has some stuff that looks like Escrima at the higher levels..." I wasn't lying before. I was simply giving the level of information that was socially appropriate at the time.

I would just say Matial Arts, instead of Taekwondo and Hapkido, because it is more universally understood, it's (as you say) socially appropriate, and also happens to be accurate.

You seem to feel that this is a great deal of work and not worth the trouble. It's never been a problem for me. Maybe I'm just a natural social chameleon.

I just feel it's easier to be accurate up front and avoid any misunderstandings than it is to speak inaccurately and potentially mislead people, which is troublesome for both the speaker and the listener. I run into a lot of people, living in a large city, and it helps to be precise. Afterall, what's the point to language if not to accurately communicate with others?

 

[Cithindril]

Personally, I think Napftor is perfectly legitimate to say that he writes for D&D if the books are designed to be used with the core rules in a fantasy setting. Whoever said that D&D is a game not a company is spot-on. It has now become a household word and defines an entire class of products in addition to a specific company's product line.

When was the last time you had a cold and asked for a 'disposable facial tissue' or gave a child a 'non-toxic wax-based coloring implement'? Of course you need a Klenix and hand the kid a Crayon. Many more examples abound.

Bottom line, a fantasy-based D20 RPG product might not be part of the official WotC product line, but can validly be referred to as a D&D accessory (obviously not as a legal trademark, but certainly in common parlance...particularly when conversing with someone unfamiliar with the hobby).

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Voadam]

Of the ones who do play D&D, and understand that it is OK to do so, the next thing you're going to have to do is then explain how you don't really write for D&D at all. So why bother saying it when it just mucks things all up in the majority of circumstances?

"don't really write for D&D at all."

You must be kidding. Don't write books with the D&D logo, sure. Don't write for the company that owns the D&D trademark, sure. But D&D is more than a logo and a trademark, it is primarily a game.

Think about it this way, if WotC put the D&D logo on a modern cookbook that had nothing to do with D&D, would the author's say they wrote "for D&D"? No they would say they wrote a cookbook for WotC.

White Wolf's d20 Everquest books might not be considered "for D&D" but their Scarred Lands setting books definitely are because they are designed for use directly and primarily with playing D&D.

If Naptor only wrote for d20/OGL games for systems different from D&D you might have a point, but I have several products he was an author on and they are all designed specifically for use in D&D games. That is writing for D&D.

 

[Sigdel]

A gay Christian tried telling me I was going to Hell. Oh the irony. Too bad this guy was cool anyways, so I did't go on an anti-Cristian Cult rant. But hes dead now, so I guess he is keeping a place saved for me in Hell. It will be nice to go back there and see the old gang again. Ahhhh....Memories.

 

[Patman21967]

Could we deviate from the topic any further??? Mark and Tack? This lady would have went batty anyway. She is not worth the explanation, just like when I tell people I am into Strat-O-Matic baseball or fantasy football, or have participated in differing genres of LARPing ( no angst driven ones ) I even took a girl who ws a drama major to a LARP, and she fell in love with them...not me unfortunately...but still...the point is ..........People are intolerant jerks, for the most part, and should be polite....but that's too much to ask.....

And Fusang...if you have any...pass it...quit bogarting the Crack...puff puff pass...you are screwing up the rotation