Energy substitution and Secondary effects

[Vorput]

Ok, so let's say my wizrd prepares a spell with Energy substitution [Acid] (Complete Arcane, metamagic feat which changes the type of energy damage dealt by an evocation spell).

Specifically, one of these two spells (though I'm sure there are others).

Shocking Grasp
Evocation [Electricity]
Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or made out of metal, carrying a lot of metal, or the like).

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

Note the bolded parts, do these things still apply even thought technically the new element (acid instead of elec/fire) wouldn't do what it says? If they don't apply, would it be balanced to insert something appropriate to the new type of element damage?

Vorp

 

[Glyfair]

Note the bolded parts, do these things still apply even thought technically the new element (acid instead of elec/fire) wouldn't do what it says? If they don't apply, would it be balanced to insert something appropriate to the new type of element damage?

Technically, yes, they'd still apply.

In practice, I'd try to come up with something as close to the original effect as reasonable. For example, I might keep "Acid Grasp" the same, but rule the type of acid reacts with metal. The "Acid Ball" spell, on the other hand, would have steaming bits of acid in the area. I'd likely say it also tends to react with metals in the area.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note the bolded parts, do these things still apply even thought technically the new element (acid instead of elec/fire) wouldn't do what it says? If they don't apply, would it be balanced to insert something appropriate to the new type of element damage?

In 3E, Tome and Blood had a sidebar on the issue. It wasn't much help.

Substituting and Admixing Energy

When you alter a spell with the Energy Substitution or Energy Admixture feats, the spell behaves exactly as the normal version does, expect [sic] for the type of damage dealt. For example, a fireball with acid energy substituted for fire or admixed with acid still deals damage in a 20-foot spread.

If a spell has a secondary effect, so does the altered version. For example, a shout spell can deafen creatures and deals extra damage to crystalline creatures. If fire is substituted for sonic energy, the altered shout spell still has these effects, but deals fire damage instead of sonic. Sometimes, however, a spell's minor effects are directly related to its energy type; for example, a fireball can set things alight, but a sonic or acid fireball cannot.

[More information about non-energy damage, eg Ice Storm, not relevant here.]

So there you have it. If an effect is unrelated to energy type, like sonic and deafening (!?), it still works. If it's related, it doesn't.

-Hyp.

 

[Vorput]

In 3E, Tome and Blood had a sidebar on the issue. It wasn't much help.

-Hyp.

...Indeed it wasn't. Hmm...