D&D 5E Enhancing bonus actions

[CubicsRube]

Since theres another thread rolling around about bonus actions and mearls stated interest in removing them, perhaps as a thought experiment we could consider if we even more strongly embraced the bonus action system and what itd look like.

My thoughts would be that class abilities and fight tsctics and maneuvers would occupy the use of a bonus action and anything that does damage would fall under an attack option.

You can blame gloomhaven for this as I've been playing it recently, and the combination of 2 actions each round leads to amazing strategising and thinking of combinations. It gives a feel of a lot more depth.

So, if we were to do something, what would it look like?

I would suggest some options for melee that would fall under bonus actions:
Trip
Grapple
Shove

But what about ranged? And spells? And other melee options?

What do the great minds of enworld suggest?

 

[Leatherhead]

It would look like 4e's Minor Actions.

And ideally, there wouldn't be any Bonus Action Attacks. Even things like tripping or shoving are technically attacks.

 

[CubicsRube]

Ah i never played 4e. Perhaps i should have.

They are attacks, but they don't do damage. I find that when the option comes to do damage or do a maneuver, damage always wins.

In theory i like the idea of hitting someone, shoving them back and then moving on, or similar ideas. But i know that the action economy in 5e is way to tightly bound - you'd have to redesign a lot.

Still, i thought it would be an interesting question to ponder.

 

[acorn_stasis]

I have never thought bonus actions were an issue. I like the way there is only one action per round. The whole simplicity of one {action +(possible) bonus action + (possible) reaction} I find good. I wonder if a multiple action idea would remove any of the supposed confusion really?

 

[MarkB]

The tricky part is that some classes are already built around doing a lot with their bonus actions in combat - Monks and Rogues in particular - whereas others either don't do much with them, or do so only situationally or depending upon a particular class build (i.e. whether they chose any bonus action spells, or decided to dual-wield weapons), so any major shake-up of bonus actions will have a variable impact across different characters.

You might be better off adding a new modification to the action economy rather than trying to tweak an existing one. As a for-instance, you could make these options free actions, but make them rewards for extra success - so, for instance, if your attack beats an opponent's AC by a margin of 5 or more, or if they fail their saving throw by 5 or more, you get to add a rider effect to your attack, against one opponent per round.

 

[TallIan]

I can see Mealrs point about not needing a bonus action system, but I'm not sure I fully agree. His argument is that the possibility of the bonus action is confusing (and he is right in some circumstances) but I think that the bonus action mechanic avoids other potential pitfalls.

I do find some classes frustrating, in that they have nothing to do with their bonus action while other classes have something they can use almost every turn, but it doesn't take great system mastery or a towering intellect to work out which classes are which and avoid the ones that are frustrating.

I do quite like the idea of some battlefield control mechanics being bonus actions, but I think that might shift game balance in favour of martial classes.

I think that I would rather see something a little more subtle though. Something that has been suggested on these forums is a sprint action, where you can dash as a bonus action if you take the dash action - different from the rogue's ability to dash at will. I've never been keen on the rogues ability to move so much faster than anyone else in a flat out race but I've never seen it screw anything up in game, so I don't feel a need to actually fix something that isn't broken.

 

[redrick]

Ah i never played 4e. Perhaps i should have.

They are attacks, but they don't do damage. I find that when the option comes to do damage or do a maneuver, damage always wins.

In theory i like the idea of hitting someone, shoving them back and then moving on, or similar ideas. But i know that the action economy in 5e is way to tightly bound - you'd have to redesign a lot.

Still, i thought it would be an interesting question to ponder.

Shoving and grappling can still be very useful, situationally, especially once you get into multiple attacks. Particularly for a raging Barbarian, who gets Advantage on all Strength-based ability checks, which includes contested Athletics checks to grapple. Any time there is something unpleasant in the environment (say a cliff face or a pit of fire) having the ability to push or move an opponent into that space can trump whatever weapon damage you might do. Throwing monsters off a cliff is very effective.

 

[mellored]

IMO: It should be divided into

Action: Damage
Bonus action: Effect.

Then let people mix and match.


The problem with removing the bonus actions is that you end up with 4e's massive list of powers.

Attack and push.
Attack and pull.
Attack and trip.
Attack and move away.
Attack and give disadvantage.
Attack and give advantage.
etc...

 

[CubicsRube]

I do quite like the idea of some battlefield control mechanics being bonus actions, but I think that might shift game balance in favour of martial classes.

I actually like the idea of shifting the combat balance to martials. Itd make it a first in d&d since perhaps od&d. Spellcasters get tons of cool utility toys that martials never get access to there.

 

[CubicsRube]

I think that I would rather see something a little more subtle though. Something that has been suggested on these forums is a sprint action, where you can dash as a bonus action if you take the dash action - different from the rogue's ability to dash at will. I've never been keen on the rogues ability to move so much faster than anyone else in a flat out race but I've never seen it screw anything up in game, so I don't feel a need to actually fix something that isn't broken.

Just for clarity - i don't think bonus actions are broken. I like them as they are. This is just a hypothetical "what if" for the sake of interest