Enlarge Person - useless for Half Ogres

[Wippit Guud]

Is a half ogre both a humanoid and a giant, or just a giant?

 

[Camarath]

It is a Gaint and not a Humanoid.

It is my personal opinion that Gaints should be Humanoid (Gaint) but that is a house rule.

 

[Xarls Taunzund]

It is a Gaint and not a Humanoid.

It is my personal opinion that Gaints should be Humanoid (Gaint) but that is a house rule.

I like that idea, will have to bring it up to a few other people in my gaming group.

 

[The Souljourner]

Just a giant.

-The Souljourner (who thinks all those X Person spells are annoying)

 

[Wippit Guud]

Well, time to try to get the DM runing my PBP game to allow Enlarge to work on the half-ogre cleric... you figure since it's a domain spell, it may be an exception and allowed

 

[Naar]

Actually, nowhere does it say that half-ogres are Giants. It says they have Giant Blood, which means they count as Giants for the purposes of racially specific magic items, but there's nothing to indicate they're not Humanoid. Besides, why would they need the Giant Blood quality if they were Giants to begin with?

 

[The Souljourner]

Hmm... good point. I don't know... they should have made it more clear I guess.

-The Souljourner

 

[Camarath]

Actually, nowhere does it say that half-ogres are Giants. It says they have Giant Blood, which means they count as Giants for the purposes of racially specific magic items, but there's nothing to indicate they're not Humanoid. Besides, why would they need the Giant Blood quality if they were Giants to begin with?

Actually it does say their type is gaint.
Savage Species
Page 217
Table A-59
Type
Gaint

 

[Naar]

Then I wonder why they have Giant Blood? Being Giants just makes them better, and they hardly need that.

 

[Camarath]

Then I wonder why they have Giant Blood? Being Giants just makes them better, and they hardly need that.

Maybe they meant for it to be Ogre Blood. Or maybe there was confusion over whether or not to actually make the half-ogre a Giant. Maybe the chart and race write up were written by different people who didn't communicate effectively. I don't know. What I do no is the only place I can find any type listing for the Half-Ogre it lists him as a giant. But the Giant Blood ability seems very odd if he already has the giant type. One fix for their power that I liked is to give them 2 giant HD.

 

[Naar]

I must look up what they're listed as in Urban Arcana when I go home. I have a feeling they are 2HD monsters, but I can't remember whether they're Giants or not.

 

[Pax]

It is a Gaint and not a Humanoid.

I disagree. Why would a Giant need the racial ability "Giant blood" ... ? That just doesn't make sense to me.

IMO, the Halfogre is type: "Humanoid (Halfogre)"; it counts as type: "Giant" ALSO. Rather like Halforcs are type: "Humanoid (Halforc)", and ALSO count as type: "Humanoid (Orc)", due to their orc blood racial ability.

I would say, the entry on SavS 216 is in error. Half-ogres are either Monstrous Humanoids, or Humanoids.

 

[James McMurray]

The problem with that is that it then allows for them to be affected by the spell Enlarge Person. It might just be me, but I wouldn't want to have to DM a party with a Huge 1st level fighter while at average party level 2!

I would think that the type is listed as Giant because they meant for it to be a giant. The note about the blood is clarification. This would make them immune to Charm Person and the like, but also make them immune to Enlarge Person.

 

[Camarath]

MO, the Halfogre is type: "Humanoid (Halfogre)"; it counts as type: "Giant" ALSO. Rather like Halforcs are type: "Humanoid (Halforc)", and ALSO count as type: "Humanoid (Orc)", due to their orc blood racial ability.

Pax if you would be so kind as to quote me a reference in Savage Spices, the errate or FAQ stating their type is Humanoid I would greatly appreciate it. The only type entry I can find says they are Giants.

 

[Storminator]

<SNIP>

I would think that the type is listed as Giant because they meant for it to be a giant. The note about the blood is clarification. This would make them immune to Charm Person and the like, but also make them immune to Enlarge Person.

I think if you want to be effected by Enlarge Person, you have to be effected by all the other X Person spells. No sense having only the good ones effect you.

PS

 

[James McMurray]

Isn't that what I said? Are you trying to confuse me? (you know how easy that is, so it's not like its even sporting ).

 

[Wippit Guud]

Level 1 half ogre gets an elnarge spell,
+8 to strength, +4 con, +4 natural armor, 15ft reach, in exchange for -2 to ac and -1 to hit.

For a level 1 spell, that is a bit powerful, but medium to large gets the same, save it's just +3 armor and a 10ft reach.

I think Enlarge person is broken now, regardless of what you're casting it on.

 

[Pax]

I think if you want to be effected by Enlarge Person, you have to be effected by all the other X Person spells. No sense having only the good ones effect you.

PS

Speaking as someone playing a half-ogre fighter in an offline campaign right now ... sure!, no problem.

I am our party's PRIMARY "brick" -- I'm the anchor for our group in combat. If enlarge person could work on me, I could help cover the WHOLE party from harm.

Of course, I'd only be able to do that in an area with at least 15x15 free space for me, and a 20' ceiling -- thelatter of which is ESPECIALLY hard to come by while indoors.

I'll tell you what I'd REALLY like -- to be able to benefit from reduce person ... !! Some of those corridors are so darned small, I'm going tohave trouble fitting down them. Being able to have the party wizard shrink me down a bit would be GRAND, cause then I could fit through those small doorways w/o hurting someone!

I'll GLADLY trade THAT, in return for losing the immunity to hold, charm, and similar spells of the same level! ANY day!

Besides -- one Ring of Growth from Savage Species, and I'll be size Huge anyway. *shrug*

 

[Camarath]

Speaking as someone playing a half-ogre fighter in an offline campaign right now ...

That is cool my brother is playing a Half-Ogre in a campaign I am running right now. I house ruled the Half-Ogre (as well as any other Giants) to be Humanoid (Giant). I feel this cleared up any confusion over whether or not the Half-Ogre should be Humanoid or Giant. And it always seemed strange to me that basically humanoid creatures who are Large size or bigger should be a different base type rather than a sub-type.

 

[Daeinar]

Uhm... no

Level 1 half ogre gets an elnarge spell,
+8 to strength, +4 con, +4 natural armor, 15ft reach, in exchange for -2 to ac and -1 to hit.

For a level 1 spell, that is a bit powerful, but medium to large gets the same, save it's just +3 armor and a 10ft reach.

I think Enlarge person is broken now, regardless of what you're casting it on.

You're wrong in all cases. But just reading the spell descreption would help a lot.

Enlarge Person gives you what is mentioned in the description. A +2 enlargement bonus to strength, a -2 enlargement penalty to dex, and the size penalty on AC and attack rolls for the new size. And the natural reach of the new size.

It does NOT however, use the advancement rules as presented in the MM. Makes sense for a first level spell.

Daeinar

-Have fun, and know the rules before you try to fix them.