Entangle Question

[Wippit Guud]

Burning Hands has an area. Does it create flames?

 

[Pielorinho]

Oh, for the sweet love of God.

Some spells (spike stones, soften earth and stone, entangle, plant growth) have an area of effect, but they only change specific things that exist within them.

Other spells (fireball, ice storm, grease) have an area of effect, but they create some substance or force within that area.

Notice how the spells on the first list are all transmutations?

It's a tortured reading of the rules indeed that has a transmutation spell conjure a plant out of nothing. Indeed, given how powerful the spell is, it's reasonable to interpret the spell as not increasing a plant's total volume: a person walking across a golf course isn't going to be entangled, whereas someone walking through my uncle's never-mowed back yard will be.

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

His Burning Hands example is, unfortunately, a good one - Burning Hands is a transmutation that creates some substance or force within the area.

I still agree with the interpretation of Entangle needing plants to affect, though

-Hyp.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Ok, first of all, for the record, I agree with needing plants. Don't shoot the messenger here. But when debating a topic, you sometimes get more out of it by arguing for the opposite view.

Burning hands makes flames. Why can't entangle make plants?

 

[Pielorinho]

His Burning Hands example is, unfortunately, a good one - Burning Hands is a transmutation that creates some substance or force within the area.

Gah! Why on earth is Burning Hands a transmutation? Virtually all the fire spells are evocations or conjurations, both of which make sense; the exceptions are things like fire trap (an abjuration, like most wards) and heat metal (transmutation, because it changes the state of existing metal). That's very silly for burning hands to be a transmutation.

I stand by the idea that entangle merely transforms the plants in the area; it doesn't create new plants. Otherwise you've got a first level spell that's significantly more powerful than the second-level spell Web. (bigger AoE, requires more saves, doesn't require parallel anchoring surfaces, etc. in exchange for an increased movement rate for folks caught within it).

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

Gah! Why on earth is Burning Hands a transmutation?

Heh.

"You got gypped, son... you want Burning Hands the evocation spell. The transmutation one just sets your hands on fire..."

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

Heh.

"You got gypped, son... you want Burning Hands the evocation spell. The transmutation one just sets your hands on fire..."

-Hyp.

!

Daniel

 

[melkoriii]

What I would do is carry around a bag of Underbrush seeds (Ivy, Grass, common bushes) and cast a hand full on the battle field before casting.

Magic causes the plants to grow and entangle. Even on stone or in a cave the plants can grab hold of the walls or ground. Its Magic.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wouldn't let it work with seeds, only with actual plants.

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

Magic causes the plants to grow and entangle. Even on stone or in a cave the plants can grab hold of the walls or ground. Its Magic.

The spell doesn't say that it causes them to grow -- just to entangle. We've always ruled that you can only cast it effectively in areas with plants that, if animated, could hinder your movement. If you're on the Duke's well-manicured lawn, you're golden; if you're wandering around his rose garden, you're screwed.

Daniel