Entangle Question

[Wippit Guud]

Spike growth specifies "any ground-covering vegetation in the target spell's area"

Spike stones specifies "Rocky ground, stone floors, and similar surfaces"

Entangle specifies "Plants entwine about creatures in the area " it doesn't specifically say 'existing plants' or 'plants in the area'

 

[Pielorinho]

Spike growth specifies "any ground-covering vegetation in the target spell's area"

Spike stones specifies "Rocky ground, stone floors, and similar surfaces"

Entangle specifies "Plants entwine about creatures in the area " it doesn't specifically say 'existing plants' or 'plants in the area'

But the AoE says "plants in a 40' radius spread." This is different from fireball, whose AoE is simply a 30' radius burst, not "fire in a 30' radius burst." I can't think of any AoE that mentions an entity being in the AoE that creates the entity in the AoE; can you?

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

Burning Hands

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

Burning Hands

GAH!

Okay, that's it. I'm officially errataing Burning Hands: as of now, it is no longer a transmutation spell, but is rather an evocation spell. Furthermore, its AoE is simply a semicircular burst 10' long centered on the caster's hands.

There. Somebody let WOTC know.

Now, wanna try again, smartass?

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm officially errataing Burning Hands: as of now, it is no longer a transmutation spell, but is rather an evocation spell.

Gee, way to nerf Transmutation. Now it's just a sucky school. Why would anyone specialise in it any more?

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

Gee, way to nerf Transmutation. Now it's just a sucky school. Why would anyone specialise in it any more?

-Hyp.

I'm so gonna kick your ass, Hypersmurf

Daniel

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just one thing - when looking at 'web', I noticed that it's AoE is "webs in a 20-ft radius spread". So does web now not create a web, but only influence existing webs?

Next up - I'd say that entangle is at best no more powerful than web is. Web entirely takes it's victims out of a combat, regardless of their save (greatly reduced movement, large cover bonuses for attacks through it, etc)

Entangle simply cuts them down to half movement speed if they save.

The increased AoE is both curse and blessing.

My take: Entangle is really badly defined. It really needs a table which specifies effects based on what plants are present, including additional effects for specific plant-life (like if most of the vegetation around is thorny, it should probably cause damage to those entangled etc).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just one thing - when looking at 'web', I noticed that it's AoE is "webs in a 20-ft radius spread". So does web now not create a web, but only influence existing webs?

Web has an Effect, not an Area, and it's Conjuration, not Transmutation.

An Effect is something that is produced; an Area is something that is effected.

Conjuration creates; Transmutation changes.

It's why we're complaining about Burning Hands - it breaks a bunch of intuitive rules.

-Hyp.

 

[melkoriii]

Sooo what happens when you cast entangle when fighting a Trent or a Shrieker or Violet Fungus?

Do they grab themselves?

 

[Steverooo]

Burning hands makes flames. Why can't entangle make plants?

Because it can't.

What, not good enough forya? Okay...

Burning Hands is a Transmutation spell. It transmutes the pre-existing energy of the Positive Material Plane into one of the Energy types: Fire/Flame/Heat.

Entangle is also a Transmutation. Can it transmute dirt, energy, etc., into life; a living plant? (Assuming you accept the idea that plants are "alive", which I don't!)

Well, Lessee... What realm do the various "Create" spells fall into?... (Flip, flip, flip!) Hmmm!... All except Create Undead (Necromantic) (Evil) are Conjuation (Creation). Entangle is a Transmutation.

So, no. It cannot (and therefore does not) CREATE any plants. It transmutes the pre-existing ones. To conjure up ones from elsewhere is a Conjuration (Summoning). To Create them is Conjuration (Creation). Neither is a Transmutation.