Enterprise 02/04/03

[John Crichton]

Tribbles are nice, but I would disagree Star Trek was always about lecturing.

Under Roddenbery (spell?) - there were a lot of stories that parallel modern social issues, but that was true with all his writings- from westerns to scifi.

Even during his reign, he was at least; somewhat clever about it or at least not insulting in his tactics ("you really need to get over your human morality").

After Roddenbery's reign ended (through his death) - the shows shifted far from that. Sure, there was the occasional episode, but the series took up entertainment.

Gotta disagree there. See the last 3 seasons of DS9 for examples.

Voyager was crud. Enterprise shows promise. Had any of the other series (with the lone exception of Voyager) not had time to develop they would not have been as entertaining as they were. And as for T'pol's outfit, big deal. It's been happening on Trek since TOS with the little skirts (for the time) and Kirk shacking up with a different alien babe every week.

The final straw for me was the preview for next week's "timely" episode- or however they phrased it. Sure, it is timely, but modern problems are complicated enough without them trying to muddle the issues with a simplistic hour long lecture from women in skin tight clothing.

Didn't bug me. I couldn't care less on how a show is advertised. That's just marketing doing their thing.

I still find Enterprise entertaining. It's not my favorite show on TV and probably never will be. This episode wasn't my favorite but when it ended I wondered why it was so short. I realized it was because it kept me watching and entertained the whole time. I enjoyed the little tribute the Columbia Shuttle at the beginning. Showed class.

I'll stop here because Mark pretty much gave many of the points that I would just repeat here. Good day, I hope you find a show that is more to your liking.

 

[Umbran]

Even during his reign, he was at least; somewhat clever about it or at least not insulting in his tactics ("you really need to get over your human morality").

You're joking, right? As a counter example, I hold up TOS: Let That Be Your Last BattleField. The whole half-white/half-black racism thing. Not clever at all. But it got the point across, and it did it's job. Star Trek is well known for using the moral sledgehammer .

 

[Mark]

Just about any time in TOS when they had a confrontation with another species, there were rather blatant anti-war messages and overtures. Race relations was in the forefront of the message of the entire series. Even when episodes were quirky they slipped in cultural non-interference dogma with the prime directive. Preaching diversity was the over-riding theme of the, basically humorous, "Harry Mudd and his Robots" episode.

TNG took a more active role in moving from a non-interference message to one of cultural exchange, and as often as they could.

DS9 moved it from "We need to seek out new life for good reasons and with fair intentions" to a "We're all in this together and have no choice but to try harder to get along" theme.

Voy may have been more about us struggling against others while keeping to ourselves than any other series. That may be the main reason (and please don't start harping on the acting, directing, scripts... ) that people felt put off by the show. Thematically it may have been the show on the shakiest moral ground of any of the series. Quite selfish, looking back on it...

*shrug*

 

[Darius101]

I also think that on voyager , by doing the show that way they made the captain seem weaker than the previous captains.

I also think it was hard for some to accept her as being able to keep the crew together through those various 'tests'.

interesting Mark interesting....
Darius -----Beaming out.wav----

 

[jasper]

ack I glad I was making chainmail during the show.
yet another preaching episode.
You know it is bad when the B plot (tripp's part) is more entertaining than the main plot.

Can we at least get rid of the A and B plots and maybe just have a 4 to 6 episode story arc. Hey since St steals plots and scripts steal some plots from B5 second season.

As a soap opera which has been going on since the 60's I don't expect new plots but do want better writing.

And why is that Kirk would settle things with an uzi his grand father either talks his subject to death or swats the puppy with a rolled up newspaper.

Enterprise the space before West Wing. In fact if the slot were to go back being opposite of West Wing i will be watching Enterprise when West Wing is in reruns.

 

[John Crichton]

Voy may have been more about us struggling against others while keeping to ourselves than any other series. That may be the main reason (and please don't start harping on the acting, directing, scripts... ) that people felt put off by the show. Thematically it may have been the show on the shakiest moral ground of any of the series. Quite selfish, looking back on it...

*shrug*

Since you asked not to, I shan't harp on the VOY acting, scripts, etc. I'd love to back you on your opinion of why folks didn't like the show but I really can't. I think it's fair to say at this point that I see shows as simple entertainment and as long as it's entertaining and engaging I'm there. Voyager was none of those things. Mind you, I haven't seen a ton of episodes. I did see a few good ones, but those were ones where usually the entire crew was wiped out and it ended up getting fixed by some time-thingy (ex. Year of Hell, the ep directed by LaVar Burton on the ice planet, etc.).

This relates to Enterprise in the way that Voyager (along with the sub-par TNG flicks) nearly killed Trek for me. Enterprise is keeping me on board. Enterprise has characters that are interesting and are defined well in the show. I never felt that on Voyager. That show never really found its feet I thought. Mostly as evidenced by the fact that they relied way too much on Seven's character after she was introduced. I did agree with the choice, however because she was the best actor on there (I think she has great acting range). But it hurt everything that came before it. Additionally, there are other shows that did the concept (lost in space, far from home or just simple sci-fi) much better at the time it was on the air (Farscape, B5).

Enterprise has little competition at the this point in sci-fi land. Farscape is almost dead. X-Files is dead. Firefly is dead. Dark Angel (which I didn't like anyway) is dead. Now is the time for Paramount to show folks what they can do. Their only real competition are the 2 remaining that Joss Whedon shows, Smallville and Alias, which have really little to do with the genre that Trek is in.

That being said, the Trek franchise is still on shaky ground in my eyes. I don't know how well Enterprise is doing in the ratings and I have no idea how well Nemesis did but Enterprise has a big load to bear and I think they are doing an admirable job. I think they need to cut loose a bit more but I like the direction of the show. Now is the time.

 

[Mark]

...maybe just have a 4 to 6 episode story arc.

I'd like to see about a dozen episodes with us forming alliances. Maybe another arc with us in direct confrontation with the Kilngons. What's the supposed timeline for Human/Vulcan and Klingon relations, anyway?

 

[Mark]

I think they need to cut loose a bit more but I like the direction of the show. Now is the time.

I doubt that we'll get many really good space battles, given the level of tech compared to what people have grown used to seeing on previous series and other space shows. It may be that they were trying to find a way to get more action oriented with that Kilngon/western show, but we all saw that not do so well.

When you say "cut loose" what is it you mean, roughly or exactly?

 

[John Crichton]

When you say "cut loose" what is it you mean, roughly or exactly?

That is one valid question!

I mean basically push the boundries of the genre. Use some of the same methods that worked for Trek in the past. It would be great to see a "City on the Edge of Forever" or "All Good Things" or "Best of Both Worlds." I could go on and on about the classic Trek eps that really defined the show but that would bore us both. My point is that those episodes seemed to be almost larger than the life and really impacted either the Trek Universe or a singular character or group of characters. They are on the right track I think as this week's ep was a good example as we saw some true guts in T'pol and the bond between her and Archer getting stronger.

I would like a little more drama and maybe a few more space battles (just cuz there are always cool) but that's only part of it. I recall watching last season's finale of Enterprise and for the first time really getting wowed by it. It was great from start to finish. Perhaps is was more the pacing of the episode I liked. Very quick and deliberate. Each scene was important.

Now I like eps with the plot A/B and sometimes C formula but it is easy to get trapped in that place where the secondary plot becomes simply a side note and overall not that important to the show in general. Really, I guess all I want is a few more eps where the have a singular focus and really hammer it home.

Perhaps I've been spoiled by Buffy, Farscape, Alias, etc etc but that just means that Enterprise has to raise the bar a bit. Get it back to TNG/DS9 calibur entertainment and I'll be happy. I know it's alot to ask but I think they have the actors who can pull it off. I guess it's all on the production teams now to give them the juicy bits.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I found the episode to be also around a 5/10 or less.

While Star Trek has and should deal with issues they really need to write the stories better and think about using other cast members. This is episode should have had more passion and emotion but because it was dealing with a Vulcan issue it was cold and stale. It also did not make sense from what we know, Spock mind melds all the time, we see others doing it, for a race that lives a long time and is set in their ways, it is not logical.

Tripp story lines have been some of the best of this season. As said the only saving grace this week.