Epic Arcane Archer: Overpowered?

[Cloudgatherer]

I recently played in an epic game with an elven arcane archer. I was shocked by the sheer amount of damage he pumped out each round. Both of us are level 30, I'm playing a sorcerer while the arcane archer has 23 levels of the class.

So he was explaining to me how he did so much damage. +12 arrows, +5 bow, +2 for a mighty composite (he has low Str), +2d6 acid, +2d6 lit. I think there was more, but that's all I recall. He also has many of the relevant archer feats (shoot anyone he can see, manyshot, plus others).

This seem a bit overpowered to anyone else? Especially the +12 arrows, that seems a bit much. Just making +12 arrows would cost 2.88 mil GP, IIRC (not sure, but it's way up there).

Thoughts?

 

[Darklone]

Wow, an epic class is overpowered ?

Yeah, it seems to be a lot. Any way to avoid this damage? Wall of wind?

 

[Pax]

I recently played in an epic game with an elven arcane archer. I was shocked by the sheer amount of damage he pumped out each round. Both of us are level 30, I'm playing a sorcerer while the arcane archer has 23 levels of the class.

So he was explaining to me how he did so much damage. +12 arrows, +5 bow, +2 for a mighty composite (he has low Str), +2d6 acid, +2d6 lit. I think there was more, but that's all I recall. He also has many of the relevant archer feats (shoot anyone he can see, manyshot, plus others).

This seem a bit overpowered to anyone else? Especially the +12 arrows, that seems a bit much. Just making +12 arrows would cost 2.88 mil GP, IIRC (not sure, but it's way up there).

Thoughts?

Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance (Major). Resistance (30) to every element, cuts 4d6 of his damage out, right there.

Incorporeality will make him miss 50% of the time with every arrow; for a sorceror, this means (by cast or by scroll) the Ghostform spell.

Otiluke's Dispelling Screen can be unkind in the extreme; the arrows hit it, and (at least some of them) get their magic suppressed. Combined with Protection from Arrows ...

Cacophonic Shield (MoF) also imposes it's own, seperate 20% miss chance for any missiles that cross it.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Minor nitpick: unless I'm missing something, there's a technical problem with the "23 levels of arcane archer" at level 30: No Can Do. You can't take epic levels in *any* class until you're taking character level 21. Levels over 10 of arcane archer are epic. Arithmetic demands this character has 3 too many levels of arcane archer. Like I said, minor nitpick.

The price of those arrows is Unbelievable, yes. IDHTBWM, but nearly 3M gp sounds about right. This is the very reason the DMG suggests there be a "percentage maximum" of your gear gp in any one item. I'm fairly sure whatever those arrows cost, it's more than 50% of the character's wealth sunk into one item... something the DM should really have nixed out of hand, though that depends on the game being played. Might not be inappropriate for a "wahoo" Monty Haul kind of game, which can be fun sometimes.

Anything that blocks or redirects physical missiles, anything that grants a miss chance, and anything that attacks the archer's psyche can be useful in avoiding these little "splinters o' death." Getting into melee with the archer makes firing dangerous. Et cetera....

 

[The Souljourner]

I, too, noticed that the arcane archer has 3 too many levels. He should be level 20 AA at max, because you can only take 10 class levels of it before level 21. Then 10 from 21-30.

Marius - the arrows are an ability of the arcane archer class. Every arrow he fires just becomes +12.

Let's see... magic arrows cost 1/50th of the equivalent magic weapon. Assuming he doesn't cheat and take 3 extra levels, he'll actually have +10 arrows.. that means they're only +10 (heh, only) so they'll cost... 10^2 *20,000 = 4,000,000 divided by 50 = 80,000gp each. Wow. That's quite the free ability.

Overpowered? Hrm... given that bows have a limit on the amount of strength you can apply to damage, I'm not sure. Your average level 30 fighter is going to have something on the order of 30-36-ish strength, and that makes for a crapload of damage the archer can't take advantage of.

Although the archer sounds overpowered, I'm not sure he is. A 30th level sorcerer should be throwing around automatic quickened spells like they're candy. If you can't cast 9th level spells quickened automatically, you've done something wrong Add in a few multispells, and you could easily be casting 4+ meteorswarms per round.

-The Souljourner

 

[Artoomis]

30th level Epic character. Overpowered? Depending upon how you look at it, it's either

1. Impossible to be overpowered (as he's facing other 30th level character who can easily negate his damage and have obscene AC), or:

2. Of course he's overpowered it's Epic, after all!

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Although the archer sounds overpowered, I'm not sure he is. A 30th level sorcerer should be throwing around automatic quickened spells like they're candy. If you can't cast 9th level spells quickened automatically, you've done something wrong

My character concept was a sorcerer who could simply think magic most of the time. Auto-Still, Auto-Silentx2, Ignore Material Components, Auto-Quickx2, Multispell. I wasn't trying to powergame too much with the character.

Perhaps I should clarify overpowered. I mean relative to other characters of the same level. Even assuming the AA only has +10 arrows (I missed discrepancy, it is not as if I was looking at his char sheet), he'll still likely have +15 to hit and damage from just magic. Even more if he has an epic bow. It's pretty hard for other characters to get this kind of weaponry.

 

[Artoomis]

My character concept was a sorcerer who could simply think magic most of the time. Auto-Still, Auto-Silentx2, Ignore Material Components, Auto-Quickx2, Multispell. I wasn't trying to powergame too much with the character.

Perhaps I should clarify overpowered. I mean relative to other characters of the same level. Even assuming the AA only has +10 arrows (I missed discrepancy, it is not as if I was looking at his char sheet), he'll still likely have +15 to hit and damage from just magic. Even more if he has an epic bow. It's pretty hard for other characters to get this kind of weaponry.

Yeah, but he's a one-trick pony. If the arrows can't reach you, they can't hit you. See above comments on how to counter his arrows. There are probabaly other ways as well, especially with epic spells - "I wish his arrows would all miss me" comes to mind as one possible solution!.

 

[Pax]

Actually, an Epic Spell would indeed shut him down, in a jiffy.

Say, "Invulnerability" (Seed: Ward). You coudl always give youself DR(50) against everything.

DC 14, +4 for all three physical types is 18, +90 for DR(50) is 108.
Change the target to Personal is -2, for 106

For mitigating factors, burn 2,000XP when you cast it, -20 is a DC of 86.
Increase the casting time from 1 minute to 10, is -18 DC, for 68.
Increase teh casting time by 30 days, is -60 DC, for an 8

Make it permanent, x5 DC is a 40; the cost is 360,000gp and 14,400XP. 8 days are needed to develop this spell.

If you leave it a Touch-range spell, the Spellcraft DC ends up at 50. Cost rises to 450,000gp and 18,000XP. 9 days are needed or this spell to be researched.

Sure, it's utter cheese. But hey ... so is a limitless supply of +10 arrows!!

 

[Marius Delphus]

Souljourner: Whoops! That'll teach me to at least consult the SRD before jumping into Rules threads.

Overpowered? The party that includes the "real" Marius Delphus also includes 4 25th-level fighter-types: a greatsword wielder, an archer, a dual-wielding duelist, and a paladin.

The greatsword's average damage is quite impressive, and the critical hits are Unbelievable(tm) (including 2 saves to avoid instant death... for every critical hit); the greatsword wielder chops down pit fiends like firewood.

The archer's arrows (which come out of the gear-total!) are pretty much on par with the AA's arrows (though lacking a +10 or whatever enhancement bonus); this archer can still slay an average Ancient Red Dragon in three to four rounds.

I haven't finished designing the duelist, but preliminary numbers and a similar playtested character indicate she'll have a Cuisinart thing going... low (compared to the greatsword) damage per hit, but around nine (fairly high TAB) attacks per round.

The paladin is fairly respectable all told, but the Smites! Oh My Deity, the Smites! Whap! Want another? Whap!

Ahem. So yeah, epic combat is full of a lot of high numbers. It's something I'm still not used to, because things didn't get this Unbelievable this fast in earlier editions. Your average 25th level character in 2E was not *so* much more than your average 18th level character... now they are...

Can spellcasters compete? You betcha....