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Epic Feat: Shared Healing (DP) question

Trainz

Explorer
The Shared Healing feat in Divine Power p. 143 says:

"When you use a power that allows an ally to spend a healing surge, you can instead have that ally regain hit points as if he or she had spent a healing surge[...]"

Do the bonuses that a cleric usually has (Healer's Implement, Healing Armor, Wisdom Bonus) on powers with the Healing keyword apply, or is it just the basic healing surge value of the PC?
 

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circadianwolf

First Post
Based on the fact that Cure Light Wounds, etc., don't get the bonuses that apply to surged healing, probably not. (Normally in 4E the wording "as if" means that you treat it--logically--as if the first thing was actually the second thing, and thus it would gain the bonuses; but developer fiat has ruled otherwise in this case.)

Although the feat is more Lay on Hands-esque, and I'm not sure what the ruling is w/r/t someone *else* spending a healing surge. Don't think it works, though, unfortunately.
 


cignus_pfaccari

First Post
They *don't*???

We always gave wisdom bonus on CLW because it has the Healing keyword.

Is this ruling official?

IIRC it's been mentioned in discussion boards by people with WOTC in their user name, but I don't think it's in the actual errata.

Honestly, it's a stupid ruling, and one my group ignores.

Brad
 

They *don't*???

We always gave wisdom bonus on CLW because it has the Healing keyword.

Is this ruling official?

Update July 2010 said:
Healer's Lore
Page 61: In the second sentence of the class feature,
replace “grant healing” with “let a creature spend a
healing surge to regain hit points.” This change limits
the potency of surgeless healing, such as with astral
seal.

Your study of healing allows you to make the most
of your healing prayers. When you let a creature
spend a healing surge to regain hit points
with one of
your cleric powers that has the healing keyword, add
your Wisdom modifier to the hit points the recipient
regains.

As you can see surgeless healing receives far less bonuses than healing that uses a surge. You should check the latest errata b/c they changed some healing enhancing items as well to tone down surgeless healing.
 

keterys

First Post
Almost everything that adds to healing now specifies when a creature spends a surge - which does not happen with Cure Light Wounds. That particular power could easily be house ruled to work with them or changed to a minor action, but I imagine it's pretty low priority.

Shared Healing is a bit murkier since a surge is spent. I'd expect table variation.
 

pemerton

Legend
Shared Healing is a bit murkier since a surge is spent. I'd expect table variation.
My intuition is that the PC who spends the surge would benefit from Healer's Lore, and the PC who does not would not. In both cases, the PC has regained hp via use of a power with the healing keyword - but only the second has done so by spending a healing surge.
 

eamon

Explorer
Compare this:
Power attack deals an extra +2 to +9 damage on hit. If you use this with a daily power that does half damage on a miss, do you get the power attack damage?

The way I interpret it, you would. You compute the damage as if you'd hit, then divide by two.

Similarly, if you heal as many hit points as if the target had spent a surge, then you need to compute how many hit points you'd heal if the target spent a surge - and that includes healers lore, or an item such as a belt of vigor. That number of hit points is the number that cure light wounds heals.

By contrast, astral seal (which the update refers to) does not refer to healing surges - it won't benefit from bonuses that surges get.

Note that although they're trying to limit surgeless healing, CLW is a daily resource and as such isn't the kind of problematic healing I expect they're worried about.

Of course, it's possible that some WotC folk didn't intend this - but not adding healers lore is simply inconsistent; how are we to know which effects apply when treating something "as if" it were something else and which effects don't? Unless it's explicit, best to assume that "as if" really means "as if".
 

keterys

First Post
And if you have another bonus that adds healing whenever the target _doesn't_ spend a surge, you could add both to Cure Light Wounds under that interpretation :)

WotC has flat out said that it doesn't apply to CLW, and there is consistent logic there. You go to perform the power and go 'Does this power allow the target to spend a surge? No. This bonus does not apply' then go to the target 'Okay, heal a surge's worth, no bonuses' instead of 'A surge's worth, plus 12'
 

Joker

First Post
I'm not disagreeing with their rationale outright, but I find it strange.
The power says you gain hit points as if you had spent a healing surge. The way I've played it, it would trigger every power, item or feat that would be triggered as if you had spent a healing surge for real.
 

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