Epic Greater Magic Weapon spell?

[bitbug]

da chicken - did you read the spell? It's got a specific 25% spell failure chance for the paws, and it would follow that you can therefore cast spells.

And, oddly, doesn't give an exception for the feat (I forgot its name) that lets you cast spells while Wild Shaped.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Epic Magic Weapon
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 44
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: One weapon touched
Duration: 20 hours
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
To Develop: 396,000 gp; 8 days; 15,840 XP. Seed: fortify (DC 17). Factors: enhancement bonus from +1 to +10 (+27 DC).

As greater magic weapon, except this spell grants a +10 enhancement bonus.

I basically followed the +3 DC per +1 from the Fortify description where it talks about DR. I suppose it could be +4, if that is the case, then increase the DC by 9 (and the expenses).

Later!

 

[da chicken]

How the hell do you figure that?!

You posted the spell as an argument that the spell proves epic-level power can be obtained by non-epic effects. I stated that the spell was so limited it should not be considered. In addition, I said the spell brought nothing truely epic to the game as every aspect of the spell is easily obtainable through other means, and the spell does not limit or eliminate the associated problems with those other non-epic means.

Therefore those should not be considered truely epic bonuses, whereas a spell identical to greater magic weapon that is capable of granting enhancement bonuses higher than +5 would be becuase of the extended duration of the spell and the fact that epic DR is keyed to epic weapon enhancement bonuses.

You still had lots of avenues to disagree with me. Bless weapon, for example, lets you overcome epic DR. However, you chose to ignore my argument, take my disagreement personally, and attack me.

 

[kreynolds]

You still had lots of avenues to disagree with me.

Of course I did. But it was so obvious that your statement was worthless that I didn't bother. You offered nothing but your opinion that the spell "sucked", which isn't even a factor in this discussion. The point was that you can easily gain a bonus to a stat higher than +6 via a non-epic spell. You offered nothing.

However, you chose to ignore my argument, take my disagreement personally, and attack me.

I didn't attack you. More appropriately, I called you out. You had no argument. The only thing you offered was a baseless and weightless opinion. "Spell still sucks, though." is as worthless as saying, "Oh yeah? Well my dad can kick your dad's butt!" or "Well, you're a poo-poo head!". Do the world a favor and behave while you're in a grocery store.

 

[da chicken]

Cloudgatherer:

Nice. Here's my attempt:

The base DC should be 27, because the spell grants an enhancment bonus if one is not already present. So +1 for DC 27. If it only worked on magical weapons, it would be base DC 17.

[If divine and good, ad hoc blessed weapons from good clerics at +2.]

The spell only works on weapons, not on natural weapons, so ad hoc -2.

We're at: 27 - 2 = DC 25.

Now comes the tricky part. +5 enhancment is nonepic and easy to get. So we'll say +2 DC per point. So +10 DC for +5 enhancment. Now, stuff over +5 is hard, and should be progrssively harder. Say +3 DC each for +6 to +10, +6 DC each for +11 to +15, +12 DC each for +16 to +20, etc.

We'll start out with +15. That's realistically as high as we need it to be. If we need it higher, we should be powerful enough to research a new spell.

DC 25 + 10 (nonepic) + 15 (epic to +10) + 30 (epic to +15) = DC 80.

That's pretty high, so I'll increase the casting time to 10 minutes for -18. This is always a good idea for noncombat spells, as the return on investment is so dang high.

DC 80 - 18 = DC 62

Currently, this spell gives any weapon a fixed enhancement bonus of +15 and takes 10 minutes to cast.

Now, lets make it caster level dependent. Lots of ad hoc here.

At level 20 (technically impossible) it should be +5, and at level 21, it should be +6. So, we say base +1 enhancment, plus +1 for every five levels, rounded down. This represents a pretty big power loss (+15 is now level 70). If this spell just gave us +6, it would be DC 38. Half the difference is 24, so ad hoc this to -25.

DC 62 - 25 = DC 37

Making the duration 1 hour/level isn't a big change. I'd say Ad hoc +2, as DC +2 would make it 40 hours normally.

DC 37 + 2 = DC 39

You also might consider limiting the bonus to +10 and instead greatly extending the spell duration. 1 day/level would probably cost you about +50 to +70 DC. At that point, you should be looking at backlash damage.

Epic Magic Weapon
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 39
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: One weapon touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The weapon touched gains an enhancment bonus. This bonus is +1, plus an additional +1 for every five levels of the caster, rounded down, to a maximum of +15 at caster level 70. The spell does not function on natural weapons.

 

[da chicken]

Of course I did. But it was so obvious that your statement was worthless that I didn't bother. You offered nothing but your opinion that the spell "sucked", which isn't even a factor in this discussion. The point was that you can easily gain a bonus to a stat higher than +6 via a non-epic spell. You offered nothing.

"Nothing"? "Worthless"? How is "That doesn't apply because the duration is too limited" nothing? How is "that doesn't really represent epic because it has so many restrictions" nothing?

Why didn't you say "I don't agree with your argument and want to hear it again"?

I didn't attack you.

No, you were just condescending: "Wow. That's very informative. You should write a paper about that."

Are you surprised that got a hostile response?

More appropriately, I called you out. You had no argument. The only thing you offered was a baseless and weightless opinion. "Spell still sucks, though." is as worthless as saying, "Oh yeah? Well my dad can kick your dad's butt!" or "Well, you're a poo-poo head!". Do the world a favor and behave while you're in a grocery store.

Bite of the werebear gives an extremely short-lived and extremely restricted bonus. I argued that it was not an appropriate guide. The spell denies the use of weapons, but you need either high strength or high enhancement weapons to affect most CR 18+ creatures. Als, the spell is available only to Sorcerers, Wizards, and Druids. Historically not the best melee characters, and historically very low hp characters. The +16 Str and +8 Con is there to give you a chance to survive in melee (a bad chance, too, as those hp go away in 2 minutes or less).

Exactly zero of those things are true about a higher level GMW which allows +6 and higher enhancement bonuses.

Me saying the spell "sucks" means that the spell, while giving massive bonuses on an epic numeric level, does not live up to the promise of an epic level bonus. Therefore, it is a poor example. The argument is that the restirictions placed on the spell keep it from granting true epic bonuses.

And you still haven't dealt with the fact that epic enhancement and epic DR are built to work together. You shouldn't give that defense away. Everything in the ELH implies that epic levels and standard levels should be kept as separate as possible. Non-epic PCs shouldn't have access to epic powers. Overcoming DR xx/+6 includes that.

 

[Knight Otu]

For the Rokugan IR, I have created a Magic Equipment seed, based on Greater Magic Weapon and the sidebar on page 91. Here is what I originally posted:

Seed: Magic Equipment
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 19
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: One weapon, 50 projectiles or one armor touched
Duration: 20 hours
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)

You imbue the target objects with a +3 enhancement bonus, as though they had specifically created with the bonus via the Craft Magic (or Epic) Arms and Armor feat.
You can increase the enhancement bonus of the item by increasing the Spellcraft DC by +3 per +1 increase of the enhancement bonus.
Instead of utilizing a pure enhancement bonus, you can "pay" for special properties, such as flaming, normally by exchanging part of the enhancement bonus with the special ability (i.e. for flaming, you drop 1 point from the enhancement bonus), but you must increase the Spellcraft DC by +3 for doing so.
If the final equipment would be considered epic, multiply the Spellcraft DC by 2.
This seed can be applied to objects that normally have to remain non-magical for other seeds to function (such as Conjure), by increasing the Spellcraft DC by +5.
An epic spell using this seed cannot be made permanent.

I think it will need some more work, though.

And creamsteak posted in response:

Crunching your Epic Seed:

Hmm... DC actually is high for a non-permanent magic weapon spell seed... I'll use the rule from the bottom of page 91.

Magic Weapon (1st Level): DC 14

K... that's a starter.

Then for each additional +1 of enhancement it would raise the DC by 2.

That's all you really need I would think. Because, creativity with other DC's will give you the tools to do the rest. Want +20d6 fire damage? Tie in the
Energy: Fire DC.

This is fine as well: This seed can be applied to objects that normally have to remain non-magical for other seeds to function (such as Conjure), by
increasing the Spellcraft DC by +5.

So keep that and the rest of your spell, just change the base DC and the enhancement bonus DC, and drop the stuff about other enhancements, because
there are other ways to deal with them.

I hope that helps...

Personally, after thinking a bit about it, I'd go with the DC 19 version, and propably a higher Epic Enhancement penalty, as well as dropping the ability to add enhancements like flaming.

 

[Caliber]

What about a spell that allows a weapon to bypass DR up to a certain plus, but gives no other bonuses (to-hit or damage.)

What would be the ad-hoc adjustment for that?

 

[kreynolds]

"Nothing"? "Worthless"?

Totally.

How is "That doesn't apply because the duration is too limited" nothing?

Because it's a spell. It is a non-epic spell that allows an ability bonus higher than +6. So, according to the rules, it doesn't really matter what you think, does it? Either you agree with the rules and you are correct, or you disagree and you admit that you use a house rule. One or the other pal. The evidence is right there in your face and you have nothing to counter with.

How is "that doesn't really represent epic because it has so many restrictions" nothing?

See previous answer.

Why didn't you say "I don't agree with your argument and want to hear it again"?

Because you're argument was pointless, so I didn't want to suffer through it.

No, you were just condescending: "Wow. That's very informative. You should write a paper about that."

I could have been far worse. But I wasn't pissed at you or anything. I was disappointed. That was such a pitiful "Oh, yeah?!" reply that I couldn't believe I had seen it. Of course I was condescending. You were acting like a child.

Are you surprised that got a hostile response?

You call your reaction hostile?

Bite of the werebear gives...<snip>...DR xx/+6 includes that.

Bottom line: non-epic magic does not limit you to +6 to an ability score. See Tensor's Transformation as well.

Dude. Give it up. It's sad.

 

[angramainyu]

Let's keep the tone away from the nasty side, please.