Epic Handbook just a little bit unreasonable?

[Numion]

Well, I'm all for Epic Levels. These cries of munchkinism are really pointless when talking about the overall power-level of the game (which will be undeniably high in the ELHB). It's not munchkinism if powerful heroes battle powerful foes. It might be munchkinism if überpowerful heroes battle mediocre foes.

Crying 'munchkin!' here is just like complaining that high-level games are high-level.

I'll second the statement that it's only fair that a 30th level rogue can duplicate the effects of a second level spell.

 

[Ashtal]

1) It's silly to pre-judge something before it's even released. You're likely channeling either your greatest hopes or greatest fears into the product. You can pre-judge on a variety of reviews (the more, the better), or judge it truly when you have the product in your hand.

2) If you don't like it, you are under no obligation to USE it. Not every product released will be tailored made to suit your interests. I can't imagine it would be all that difficult to use basic math to figure out levels beyond 20, if you just wanted to have a continued progression. And it's easy to ignore the book altogether and say, "Not in my campaign." But you have no right to sit there and bash others who DO want this book. Don't call 'em munchkin, don't call them anything. They want to play something different and it has absolutely NO impact on your own personal game.

It strikes me that many of the feats I've heard bandied about seem reminicent of the kind of stuff I watched in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or as many pointed out, various Anime styles. And if you like that, cool - now you have a way to model it. If you don't, guess what? You just saved $50. Congrats.

To those only expressing that they are unsure whether or not the book fits their personal style, this post isn't directed at you. Only to those who feel the need to bash something they don't like, and the players who do.

 

[rounser]

This post has been sucked into the Negative Energy Plane...

 

[Ashtal]

picks at a nit

I'm guessing you mean, "this post isn't directed at you" rather than "this thread isn't directed at you".

Gah...yes. *goes and fixes*

You'll have to excuse me. I'm in the throws of one of the worst chest colds I've had in ages, thanks to one of my players.

His PC has a BIG old target on him for the next game.

 

[hong]

Gah...yes. *goes and fixes*

You'll have to excuse me. I'm in the throws of one of the worst chest colds I've had in ages, thanks to one of my players.

His PC has a BIG old target on him for the next game.

You caught a chest cold from a PC?

 

[Ashtal]

No, from the player of the PC. It will just be easier to exact revenge by taking it out on his PC when I run Rappan Athuk this week.

 

[Tsyr]

A lot of anime is munchkin, the protagonists are impossibly better than everyone else and get to do whatever they want without any consequences - Legend of the Five Kings, Gundam Wing, etc. It's almost a defining point of the genre. I don't like this stuff, I'd rather have D&D rules that modelled closer to Norse mythology, say.

*coughs*

[/fanboy rant on]

Point 1:Anime is not a genre! Darnit, I don't know where that idea got started. Anime is a media, not a genre. There are genres within anime... sci-fi, romance, action, horror, fantasy, drama, sports, comedy, etc. Anime itself is no more a genre than saying radio is a genre or live plays are a genre.

Point 2: If you are watching anime where the protagonists are that much better, I honestly don't know what your watching. Almost any anime made in the last 15-20 years (Some of the really early stuff could be a bit hokey) is full of downfalls, trials, and perils for the main character, almost all of them brought on by them making mistakes and doing stupid things. Romance anime has it, action anime has it, horror anime has it, sports anime has it, heck even comedy anime has it. Evangelion, Kenshin, Hana Yori Dango, Fushigi Yuugi, Hellsing, Seikai no Senki, Hikaru no Go, RahXephon, Gundam Wing, Record of the Lodoss War, Cowboy Bebop, Bubblegum Crisis, Orphen, Ranma, Tenchi, etc etc. Heck, there are even (spoiler warning) some anime where the main character *gasp* dies. Cowboy Bebop, for example. Or turns out to be a real scumbag that you thought was cool. Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade, for example. Or has an abigious and vaugly sad ending. Shoujo Kakume Utena, for example. Yes, in most cases the "hero" does eventualy "win"... but how many American movies can you say differently about? Keep in mind the proportional volume.

[/fanboy rant off]

Sorry for derailing the thread...

 

[hong]

No, from the player of the PC. It will just be easier to exact revenge by taking it out on his PC when I run Rappan Athuk this week.

You're sending his PC into Rappan Athuk? Now I'm confused.

(Unless you're referring to PC as in PirateCat. Now that makes sense! Although there's no way I'm letting anyone send MY PirateCat into a hellhole like Rappan Athuk. PirateCats are a scarce and precious resource. I don't think it's very nice of you to be abusing someone else's PirateCat in this way. How would you like it if someone took your PirateCat and chucked him into a confrontation with a dung elemental? You wouldn't like it at all, would you? So please don't do it.)

 

[Ashtal]

PC = Player Character.

 

[hong]

PC = Player Character.

Now I'm REALLY confused. Everyone knows that Rappan Athuk is no fit place to send a player character.

(Who is this Ashtal person anyway, if that is his/her/its REAL NAME? Is she/he/it a TROLL of some kind? I thought trolls were Not Allowed on this newsgroup.)