Epic Level Adventuring?
- Thread starter Yuan-Ti
- Start date
Corinth said:
Do you mean the immortals of Middle Earth? I can see that, yes, wanting to recreate Galadriel or Elrond, you want them to have epic levels. Same goes for anyone in FR who really wants to have Elminster hanging around. But what about your players? Do you want to DM a whole group of Elronds? And what is the point of doing Galadriel justice? Are your players planning on attacking her?
(A thought strikes me here that setting an epic game in the age detailed in the Silmarillion could actually be interesting... assuming you find a way to show that even an elf lord can be killed by an orcish arrow.)
Nay
I'm not too keen on Epic feats, spells and monsters. I'll use the ELH primarily for the level progression info from 21-30, and for ideas. A much shorter book could have worked, IMO.
I've said it before: adventurers need to be challenged. Need to be in life-or-death situations once in a while. What challenges are there after level 30? Sure you can throw a CL 30 Epic Monster at them...but when does it end? What campaign world has enough CL 30+ monsters to fight so that Epic PCs can advance levels? It just becomes a numbers game / arms race after a while.
Move on to the Outer Planes, you say? The same arguments hold - although maybe level 40 cap this time. You've cleaned out the Nine Hells, now what?
Killing gods is just not my style of play. We've played on-and-off for about 2 years and my party has an average level of 7.
I'm not too keen on Epic feats, spells and monsters. I'll use the ELH primarily for the level progression info from 21-30, and for ideas. A much shorter book could have worked, IMO.
I've said it before: adventurers need to be challenged. Need to be in life-or-death situations once in a while. What challenges are there after level 30? Sure you can throw a CL 30 Epic Monster at them...but when does it end? What campaign world has enough CL 30+ monsters to fight so that Epic PCs can advance levels? It just becomes a numbers game / arms race after a while.
Move on to the Outer Planes, you say? The same arguments hold - although maybe level 40 cap this time. You've cleaned out the Nine Hells, now what?
Killing gods is just not my style of play. We've played on-and-off for about 2 years and my party has an average level of 7.
kkoie
First Post
Well I for one could've used the ELH about 3 months ago when my players hit beyond 20th level. And I love the idea of epic level feats, equipment, spells, monsters, etc etc. Those guys who complain that life is perfect at 5th level, and wotc shouldn't cater to those who like high level stuff sound like old ladies, IMHO.
K Koie
K Koie
I think it's entirely a matter of taste.
A slight aside: I watched an anime recently called "Wrath of the Ninja", which features three characters, each a decendent of one of the Shadow Ninja clans and weilding a weapon (short sword, long sword, and halberd) that was part of a legend.
The movie (which I think is based on an OAV series, I'm not sure), chronicles 10 years of their lives as they fight a Demon Overlord who is trying to capture the land, and destroy the Clans. It was kind of like watching a whole campaign progress from first level, all the way to Epic level, where the three weilded these weapons and destroyed a monster the size of Godzilla.
That's what I see when I envision Epic Levels.
Ashtal
A slight aside: I watched an anime recently called "Wrath of the Ninja", which features three characters, each a decendent of one of the Shadow Ninja clans and weilding a weapon (short sword, long sword, and halberd) that was part of a legend.
The movie (which I think is based on an OAV series, I'm not sure), chronicles 10 years of their lives as they fight a Demon Overlord who is trying to capture the land, and destroy the Clans. It was kind of like watching a whole campaign progress from first level, all the way to Epic level, where the three weilded these weapons and destroyed a monster the size of Godzilla.
That's what I see when I envision Epic Levels.
Ashtal
Numion
First Post
I'm very enthusiastic about the book, and will get it as soon as it lands here. I'm probably going to use it roughly for levels 21-40, and not much beyond that. And for the one who asked that where does it end?, I'd like to ask why it has to end?
Just keep playing as long as it fun for everyone, and don't blame WotC for expanding the horizon.
Just keep playing as long as it fun for everyone, and don't blame WotC for expanding the horizon.
Corinth
First Post
No, I mean the mortals. Especially in the First Age, where the Men of that age could measure up to the Elves and take on the greatest of Morgoth's minions. After the First Age, Numenorean Men would frequently reach epic level power; Men of other breeds could as well, but less frequently.Yuan-Ti said:
And yes, you'd really need it for the Elves.
The Instant Kill rule from the DMG covers this quite well.
hmm...
Blah, all you decadant 'munchkins' and your fancy schmancy "5th levels", first level is the way to go, 10 points buy no Magic classes and everyone starts out as commoners. If they ever hit 2nd level and survive that mean winter that's when we start again.
On the other hand, I am interested in t he Epic level handbook, while there are very few epics in my gameworld, a few adventures with them could be interesting.
Blah, all you decadant 'munchkins' and your fancy schmancy "5th levels", first level is the way to go, 10 points buy no Magic classes and everyone starts out as commoners. If they ever hit 2nd level and survive that mean winter that's when we start again.
On the other hand, I am interested in t he Epic level handbook, while there are very few epics in my gameworld, a few adventures with them could be interesting.
Mahiro Satsu
First Post
It wouldn't be possible for me to care less about epic level adventuring. It is fun for the first few sessions, then its just blah.
What I enjoy is low level characters. If you manage to survive a tough adventure with your level one rogue, he grows on you. By level three you really, really care about him. It is this emotional bond that makes gaming really special to me. By the time a character reaches 20th level he/she/it has gone through so much, that you almost want to see him/her/it retire.
Epic level gamingjust seems to marginalize those characters. Once you get that powerful things tend to be all about min/ max and that just isnt fun.
What I enjoy is low level characters. If you manage to survive a tough adventure with your level one rogue, he grows on you. By level three you really, really care about him. It is this emotional bond that makes gaming really special to me. By the time a character reaches 20th level he/she/it has gone through so much, that you almost want to see him/her/it retire.
Epic level gamingjust seems to marginalize those characters. Once you get that powerful things tend to be all about min/ max and that just isnt fun.
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