James McMurray
First Post
Has anyone played at epic levels yet? I'll be starting up a campaign this weekend (21st level) and was wondering if anyone had any pointers they could give, warning signs to watch out for, etc.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Epic levels
- Thread starter James McMurray
- Start date
charlesatan
Explorer
Not yet epic-level but we're hitting level 20 this weekend.
Here's one thing I noticed that's different from the Heroic Tier:
1) Lots of status effects on both sides of the table. Varying on your monster selection, as a GM, you'll be tracking a lot of conditions on players, from ongoing damage, ongoing saves, to aura effects. (Print out the page on status conditions, as well as the actions you can take in a turn.)
2) Save or Die effects. Yup, they're in 4E although it's not the one-shot roll of 3E (there's usually some other conditions to meet).
3) Players have immunities/resistances. Just worth mentioning. Like I have a Tiefling player and his fire resistance is relatively high that angel minions I send against him simply won't damage him. Also, another player is a Paladin Justicar so characters adjacent to him are immune to Fear and Charm effects (so I target the Paladin instead!).
4) Don't try out epic level on newbies. "Option Paralysis" can occur. In line with this, have players print out their character sheet, powers, magic item abilities, etc. Leafing through the PHB takes time.
5) Be careful in using some Solo monsters. Some Solo monsters are honestly dull unless the GM takes extra preparation in making the encounter more holistic by including traps, making good use of the terrain, etc. Solos that come to mind are the Purple Worm and the Hydra.
6) Encourage players to use their Encounters and Daily powers. If they don't, some fights might indeed drag on for a long time. (Of course the reverse is also true--I've had Elite creatures go from "almost bloodied" to "dead" thanks to the expenditure of two synergistic Daily Powers in one round [action point use].)
Here's one thing I noticed that's different from the Heroic Tier:
1) Lots of status effects on both sides of the table. Varying on your monster selection, as a GM, you'll be tracking a lot of conditions on players, from ongoing damage, ongoing saves, to aura effects. (Print out the page on status conditions, as well as the actions you can take in a turn.)
2) Save or Die effects. Yup, they're in 4E although it's not the one-shot roll of 3E (there's usually some other conditions to meet).
3) Players have immunities/resistances. Just worth mentioning. Like I have a Tiefling player and his fire resistance is relatively high that angel minions I send against him simply won't damage him. Also, another player is a Paladin Justicar so characters adjacent to him are immune to Fear and Charm effects (so I target the Paladin instead!).
4) Don't try out epic level on newbies. "Option Paralysis" can occur. In line with this, have players print out their character sheet, powers, magic item abilities, etc. Leafing through the PHB takes time.
5) Be careful in using some Solo monsters. Some Solo monsters are honestly dull unless the GM takes extra preparation in making the encounter more holistic by including traps, making good use of the terrain, etc. Solos that come to mind are the Purple Worm and the Hydra.
6) Encourage players to use their Encounters and Daily powers. If they don't, some fights might indeed drag on for a long time. (Of course the reverse is also true--I've had Elite creatures go from "almost bloodied" to "dead" thanks to the expenditure of two synergistic Daily Powers in one round [action point use].)
James McMurray
First Post
This game is a semi-continuation of a 3.5 epic game we played. Same setting and storyline (AD&D's Bloodstone series, with us just now starting H4: The Throne of Bloodstone), but different characters.
So far it looks like the party will be:
Cleric / Divine Oracle: ranged attacking buffer with good healing
Artificer / ?: we might make up a paragon path for him, or he may multi-class, depending on how many emails we can fire back and forth this week.
Ranger / Pit Fighter: This player has mentioned what he'd like to play, but definitely won't be here this week.
Wizard / ?: I believe he's going to go Spellstorm Mage (he really likes Storm Spell). He'll probably have the orb and stuns or Sleep to use it with. Encounters against single monsters will be fairly rare though, so I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be too bad. It'll be a good way to take a big guy out, but if they ignore the little guys with him they'll take a hefty beating while they wail on the stunned / sleeping enemy.
Half-Giant Fighter / ?: We went with Minotaur stats, but traded the goring charge attack for an Earthsoul Genasi's Earthshock, which is a decent approximation of Stomp from 3.5. As part of his backstory he'll have gone through a time whosits and been to the world of Shadowrun. Some of his gear will have a futuristic theme to it, but be normal D&D gear as far as rules are concerned (for instance, he has a mono-axe as his magic weapon).
Can you give some examples? I've seen a few places where someone will be slowed, then immobilized, then petrified or unconscious. But I haven't seen anything that just flat out kills you (apart from being swallowed by a higher level monster, which doesn;t quite kill you, but might as well).
Luckily we're all veterans.
Everyone uses either a single quick reference sheet or power cards to track their abilities. I'll be using index cards to track initiative, and have the monsters' stats on the cards and the players' relevant stats on another sheet of paper so I can get to them quickly.
I pulled the purple worm out. What's wrong with the hydra?
Thanks!
So far it looks like the party will be:
Cleric / Divine Oracle: ranged attacking buffer with good healing
Artificer / ?: we might make up a paragon path for him, or he may multi-class, depending on how many emails we can fire back and forth this week.
Ranger / Pit Fighter: This player has mentioned what he'd like to play, but definitely won't be here this week.
Wizard / ?: I believe he's going to go Spellstorm Mage (he really likes Storm Spell). He'll probably have the orb and stuns or Sleep to use it with. Encounters against single monsters will be fairly rare though, so I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be too bad. It'll be a good way to take a big guy out, but if they ignore the little guys with him they'll take a hefty beating while they wail on the stunned / sleeping enemy.
Half-Giant Fighter / ?: We went with Minotaur stats, but traded the goring charge attack for an Earthsoul Genasi's Earthshock, which is a decent approximation of Stomp from 3.5. As part of his backstory he'll have gone through a time whosits and been to the world of Shadowrun. Some of his gear will have a futuristic theme to it, but be normal D&D gear as far as rules are concerned (for instance, he has a mono-axe as his magic weapon).
Can you give some examples? I've seen a few places where someone will be slowed, then immobilized, then petrified or unconscious. But I haven't seen anything that just flat out kills you (apart from being swallowed by a higher level monster, which doesn;t quite kill you, but might as well).
Luckily we're all veterans.
Everyone uses either a single quick reference sheet or power cards to track their abilities. I'll be using index cards to track initiative, and have the monsters' stats on the cards and the players' relevant stats on another sheet of paper so I can get to them quickly.I pulled the purple worm out. What's wrong with the hydra?
Thanks!
Last edited:
charlesatan
Explorer
You're in the 4th Edition Rules forum so I don't think anyone else will mistake it for a different edition.
For me "Petrified" counts as dead. Sure, you can be returned back to normal once the battle is over via a Ritual but aside from that (and that's assuming somebody knows that particular ritual), you're virtually out of the combat. The Beholder Eye Tyrant and Iron Gorgon has this ability.
Speaking of Beholder Eye Tyrants, its Death Ray also outright kills you should you fail two saving throws. Same goes for Gibbering Orb's Souleating Ray.
While not outright death, Nightwalker has a Finger of Death which brings you down to 0 hit points if you're already bloodied.
When I say the Hydra and the Purple Worm need to be watched out for, it's because of the boredom that can ensue.
In the case of both, it'll end up like the 3.XX slugfest where the PC and the Monster are standing in place, hitting each other.
In the case of the Hydra, it does nothing else except attack (although it has a choice of ranged or melee). It lacks the other mechanics, such as immediately interrupts or recharge powers.
Personally, when I last ran a Hydra encounter, I conducted it in a sewer (making good use of the Hydra's Reach and Swim speeds). I made the actual sewage difficult terrain for the players and the advantageous position for them would be the ledges (although getting the Hydra into that area is another matter). You need to move around such "vanilla-flavored" monsters often to make the fights dynamic and not be locked down by a Fighter's charge (and their ability to impede your movement).
For the Purple Worm, I'm giving it another chance in this weekend's game but I'm thinking more of a Fiendwurm flavor so it'll be disgorging Devil minions every round or so just to shake things up. And then once the players kill the worm, they'll have to dive into it's maw to enter the Nine Hells...
Kannik
Legend
Wow, interesting. I'm DMing the old H-series (been on hold for about a year, though), gone H1 and H2, and I'm considering switching to 4e when we start up again for H3 (and then H4). I'd be interested to see/hear how it goes for you. }
Kannik
James McMurray
First Post
I'll be doing either a newsletter style wrap-up after every session or a story hour style one. Not sure which yet. Whichever it is, I'll definitely be posting it.
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