EPIC M&M (OOC Thread)

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Elementor said:
Well since I already have supersight. I am planning on taking penetrating vision for 2 points. And with good reason too since I am taking the Incorporeal stunt on my Superspeed with the other 2 points.

Now as I am boogying along at Superspeed, I can run right through stuff and still see where I am going.

I can just see the training sessions for this one...

"HEY GUYS! Watch what I can do!" Vince runs full speed... into a wall... :D
 
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First thing... I hate penetrating vision. There is a reason very few heroes in the comics have it. It makes it too easy to get around plots :) Even superman doesn't use his very often, and when he does, he's concentrating on it. So, while I shall expound in various ways, there's a big no to penetrating vision unless you have super senses relating to sight.

Mimic
I'm going to just say no to penetrating vision (mainly because it is a pain in the butt to me and it should require super senses and even then I will constantly come up with ways to foil it so I don't have to think around it). Your magnetic wave have nothing to do with sight, and it just doesn't make sense to me to have you suddenly develop a new ability based on you not being able to see through a window once.

For your stunt versus extra thing, remember that stunts are used in place of their base power, and never at the same time. Even if you were to take snare as a stunt, until the snare is broken, you would not be able to activate your force field. The same holds true for suffocation, in that unless you stop the suffocation, you cannot activate your force field. To work any other way requires the abilities to be extras.

Take a look at Tyroc. He has an energy blast with a stunt of paralysis and a stunt of slow. He can blast someone and slow them down, but he can't then blast someone else and hurt them. While he's using slow, a sustained power, he can't use any other form of energy beam without first getting rid of the slow. Same for paralysis. If he wants to be able to paralyze someone and then blast them while they are paralyzed, he'll need to take an extra.

Bank up or buy a partial extra of snare on force field. Would be tres cool to see you encasing foes in big force field bubbles :)

Elementor
Unfortuneately, it is an extra of super speed, not a stunt. Since I use alternate rules for incorporeal, it may be less desireous for you. To move through objects with more hardness than your power rank, requires a DC10+hardness power check, just as if you tried to move through a force field. This means you will need an 11 to move through glass; a 20 to pass through steel. It's very cool though, in that you also have protection up to your incorporeal rank against all attacks but one kind (cold sounding like a good one for Vince), and can sneak hotdogs out of bar kitchens if Raisa punches you. Because I know you'll ask...

If you try to move into something, but fail, you'll just bounce off. You'll have to make a stun damage save (unless you were going through a wall of razor blades, and lets hope your GM doesn't think of THAT). What I do for hardness (say of a building) is average it out. Just because the building has steel beams, doesn't mean it has hardness 10. It is likely more like brick and stone, so hardness of 7-8. You'd avoid the steel beams because you can see them as you approach. That way, you won't knock yourself out running through a building and die trapped within stone, unless there is a sudden change of hardness, and I can't see that happening with the exception of a vault or something like that.

Still, as far as extras goes, I'd say getting a partial extra on incorporeal would be good, but I'd look at building it up to super speed rank asap to make it the most useful. I'd say an average for a house would be 5 hardness. For a major building, 7-8.

You actually don't have any super senses. You just have some wierd mutations in your eyes. Also, penetrating vision is not required for incorporeal, since you only become non-incorporeal at your leisure, and when incorporeal, I treat it as if you can see well enough for normal movement. I really don't see any reason for you to suddenly develop that ability. See invisible would be fine though. Another no to penetrating vision, sorry guys, gotta save my sanity.

Other
I'll be checking with everyone on the benchmarks I have tomorrow, in case anyone wants to change them or add them.
 

The main reason I was going to take penetrating vision is because when we were discussing what I should do with the points I gained from the 2nd issue I commented that i was thinking about getting it and you said that it would be cool, but if you don't want it its not a problem really.

Force field on the other hand I feel you are really crippling for some reason, first you get rid of the free extra associated with it, it was errated I understand that, I can deal. When I state that force field is now just protection that is turned off when ever I get stunned you say it's balanced because of other stuff that comes with it. But now when I try to get the other stuff you limit it even more. Stunt doesn't replace the power its suppose to expand the powers flexibility. I really don't see why Tyroc can't paralyze someone then next round blast them while they are still paralyzed. But using the stunts as you stated them here is absolutely useless and a waste of points.

Ultimately it's your game and I will abide by your decisions. Having or not having snare as a stunt will not make the game any less fun. So I will bank the points for now.
 

Here, look at this. There are a ton of posts regarding it, but this sums it up with just a few entries.

Stunt versus Extra

Generally, if you can't use two powers at the same time, the one you're adding is a power stunt. If they can both be used simultaneously, it's an extra.

Can't put it much better than that.

Don't forget too, you can add those power extras with extra effort.
 

Calinon said:
Here, look at this. There are a ton of posts regarding it, but this sums it up with just a few entries.

Stunt versus Extra

Generally, if you can't use two powers at the same time, the one you're adding is a power stunt. If they can both be used simultaneously, it's an extra.

Can't put it much better than that.

Don't forget too, you can add those power extras with extra effort.

Isn't that just some dudes opinion? Really, where does it state that you can't use a power stunt the same time you use the main power?

Does that mean that Elementor can't use his Immunity heat stunt when he is running super fast? What about wall run or water run, they are both stunts yet they only work when he is using his main power.

There is lot of stunts that work while the main is working.
 

His stunt is a FEAT relating to his super speed. It's on there as it is the only immunity he can take as part of his powers. The rest he'd have to have some other reason to have them.

If you want to read it in the book, page 58.

Stunts let you use the power in a different way than normal (ie. you use it this way instead of the normal way).

Extra's expand the capabilities of the power.

Also take a look at page 95 and read power stunts, especially the Lady Hex exampe and below. And feel free to go search the M&M rules section and find the same thing I've said repeatedly here, there. Extras if you can use it at the same time

That's the last I'm saying on this.
 

Ooh, ooh, I'll chime in too. :)

Have a look at Tyroc, Mimic. When he was first built his power was incredibly expensive. Then I realized the difference between powers and stunts. Running became a stunt of Flying and Slow and Paralysis became stunts of Energy Blast because you can't use those powers at the same time, they're basically redundant, only giving you more versatility, not more power. Also, with Sorcery, each type of spell is an extra, and each additional spell of the same type is a stunt, for the same reason.
 


Calinon said:
Another no to penetrating vision, sorry guys, gotta save my sanity.

Very well then. I will spend 1 pt to max out my Flight at 8. The other 3 I will bank as I will try to get my Superspeed back up to 8 again.

Question. What all does Penetrating attack effect? Force fields? Armour? And can it be taken multiple times to get a higher penetration rating?
 

Elementor said:
Very well then. I will spend 1 pt to max out my Flight at 8. The other 3 I will bank as I will try to get my Superspeed back up to 8 again.

Question. What all does Penetrating attack effect? Force fields? Armour? And can it be taken multiple times to get a higher penetration rating?

It reduces Protection by 2 ranks, or when Prot. is gone, the Save is reduced. So yeah, Armor and FF are different forms of Protection, and even if there is no Protection, it reduces the Savein question. And yes, it can be taken multiples times to increase the effect.
 

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