Equipment Value affecting Party Level

[Purzel]

I'm planning a campaign, where the players will be prisoners on an island, where escape is (almost) impossible. A problem comes up with the lack of equipment the players can get or may manage to own: magic items will be quite rare or impossible to get, magic is outlawed anyways by the prison island military government (think of the Roman Empire but with Hobgoblins). There is no monetary system neither. Prisoners just trade goods or services against each other.

The CR system breaks apart in mid to high levels, when a group doesn't have access to adequate equipment for their party level.

How does the effective party level change, if the characters are under-equipped for their level? Are there any (more or less playtested) guidelines out there?

Because of the prison island laws the players are forced to live in a low-magic setting, but the hobgoblin guards still have good access to magic equipment. Players can be magic users, but they have to hide their abilities in front of the guards, or they will be killed (hiding spellbook, hiding holy symbols, hiding spell components etc.).

 

[devilish]

According to Upper_Krust's rules in Grim Tales, a character level is
equivalent to 0.8 of the skills/talents/etc and 0.2 is the equipment.

So a 5th level character without equipment is CR 4.

 

[Piratecat]

Off to Rules.

.8 sounds about right. That makes a 10th lvl PC about CR8, and a 15th lvl PC CR 12.

 

[dcollins]

Wow, I'm going to independently agree with that x0.8 figure. A while back I ran computer simulations of NPC fighters of various levels in combat, with and without magic equipment, and that x0.8 CR is exactly what I have jotted in my DMG as a result.

 

[devilish]

Wow, I'm going to independently agree with that x0.8 figure. A while back I ran computer simulations of NPC fighters of various levels in combat, with and without magic equipment, and that x0.8 CR is exactly what I have jotted in my DMG as a result.

Off topic, but do you still have that program and would be willing to share?
Thnx,
-D

 

[pbd]

0.8 CR for no equipment

I agree with that number at lower levels, but have to say that at increased level the gap may widen quicker.

Think of the situation where A high level fighter is taking ona demon of some wort with damage reduction 30/magic. He essentially can't hurt it unless he can really dish out the damage, which is difficult to do without some magic.

I recently played in a very low magic campaign and a party of 7, 4 - 5 level adventurers and routinely got smoked by CR 5 - 6 encounters.

Peter

 

[Nail]

I, too, would be surprised if the "fractional CR for no equipment" doesn't change with level. Sure, levels 1 - 8 might be 80%...but levels 12 thru 15?

My Clr 12, for example, would be in a world of hurt without equipment. Turning CR-appropriate UD, for instance, would be practically impossible.

 

[Purzel]

[...]
Think of the situation where A high level fighter is taking on a demon of some sort with damage reduction 30/magic. He essentially can't hurt it unless he can really dish out the damage, which is difficult to do without some magic.
[...]

You're mixing up high magic monsters into a low magic campaign here ...

Your example can be solved by a "Greater Magic Weapon" spell. At high levels with a high level caster around the situation with the demon can be solved.

The campaign for which i started this thread is only low magic in equipment, it still uses the normal spellcasting classes. So this 80%-20% formula seems to fit fine.

Another benefit of this formula is, that you can easily calculate effective party level for parties with sub-standard AND super-standard equipment too and thus adjust a running campaign to the wealth of a group some.

And the formula is easy both to keep in mind and to use with a calculator, pen and paper.

 

[Purzel]

My Clr 12, for example, would be in a world of hurt without equipment. Turning CR-appropriate UD, for instance, would be practically impossible.

The Undead Turning mechanics have their own problems, it's not a good example to show that the 80%-20% method isn't working. Turning does not scale up evenly over the levels. And in a campaign without undead it's a useless ability.

Why does your cleric depend on expensive magic items for his undead turning on level 12?

 

[pbd]

You're mixing up high magic monsters into a low magic campaign here ...

Your example can be solved by a "Greater Magic Weapon" spell. At high levels with a high level caster around the situation with the demon can be solved.

The campaign for which i started this thread is only low magic in equipment, it still uses the normal spellcasting classes. So this 80%-20% formula seems to fit fine.

Another benefit of this formula is, that you can easily calculate effective party level for parties with sub-standard AND super-standard equipment too and thus adjust a running campaign to the wealth of a group some.

And the formula is easy both to keep in mind and to use with a calculator, pen and paper.

I agree that the problem can be surmounted, but he examlpe I was using was just for the fighter; the magic users may be less affected and a well balanced party might not be too bad off. Maybe my point ism,ore poigniant for single characters (which I think would be the real test, but that is my opinion); most classes alone, with little or no magic would start to lag more at higher levels. Of course there are ways to help surmount this (VoP, variant rules from UA, etc.)