Eric Noah's Info

[Banshee16]

Why not? If the cards were integrated into the system, it would work just fine.

Also why release a PHB at all. Release a book of rules for things like combat, and how the dice work, and how stats work.

Character classes are just a new miniature of a "x character class" it comes with the stats already built into it.

Instead of rolling up stats, you get a number of points and "buy" your character like assembling a warband in D&D minis. Higher stats = higher point cost. Things like feats and spells and such cost more points. So, as your character levels up, you collect more points to buy more options.

DM would work the same. Challenge rating translates into a certain point cost for the DM. (if there even needs to be one anymore!)

Monsters are just more minis with a point cost and stats on a little card.

DM's job becomes assemble a warband for players to fight.

RP aspect of the RPG can be passed onto someone else.


Ok, enough spewin doom for me!

I will point out that TSR's one attempt at integrating CCG style playing into the game, was with SAGA, which, from what I understand, failed. That is an assumption however, based on the fact that the game is no longer produced, and Dragonlance is once again being produced (and very well) for D&D.

Banshee

 

[BluSponge]

Could you imagine if in the new edition, there was *no* MM, but instead, players have to purchase randomized packs of minis, with more detailed, full entry stat cards with all the info/description that would have ordinarily been included for said monsters in the MM? It would definitely force the use of minis, and push that segment of the game. And it probably corresponds with the type of business model they apparently want.

I was thinking about this the other day. Wouldn't it be extremely difficult to package a random assortment of miniatures AND make sure there are stat cards for each of them? Or am I just out of touch with the whole collectible minis thing?

Tom

 

[Umbran]

In any case, I responded to him as I respond to all of you: I'm out of the "D&D scoop business" and so this is the last you'll hear from me on anything 4E related.

This is not a reasonable position. Nobody interested in the game should ever really be "out of the scoop business". It's your hobby, for cryin' out loud! If information comes your way, why shouldn't you share it?

And, honestly, I think it'd be entirely appropriate if the real, official, first scoop about it came from you. Very fitting.

 

[sullivan]

Could you imagine if in the new edition, there was *no* MM, but instead, players have to purchase randomized packs of minis, with more detailed, full entry stat cards with all the info/description that would have ordinarily been included for said monsters in the MM? It would definitely force the use of minis, and push that segment of the game. And it probably corresponds with the type of business model they apparently want.

With the girth of the Monster Manual you wouldn't need to randomize the entire thing (even though this would lose some of the single SKU benefits). You could have a 5 out of 6 or 7 out of 8 random pack or something. One of the windows shows something like an orc that travels in packs, or maybe an NPC that's common. Then the rest are random, or semi random (random, but coming from a relatively limited set that is linked to visible mini). I have NEVER bought, or even looked at a DDM case, so maybe this is how they work already?

What this does is let people that are somewhat casual get in without it being a total crapshoot. But it still feeds the Lottery Ticket monkey and plays off the Gotta Catch 'Em All drive key segments of the market.

I'm not sure about Feats going to cards, because Feats as of now are fairly persistant. But using them for one-time spending specialized Stunts would be cool. Even if they get cycled back into a deck, or just held and then used for a payout for a reward instead of, or supplementing XP rewards for PC actions. Like many other RPGs, only now it becomes a revenue stream. Plus once again you can get into the Lottery Ticket and Gotta Catch 'Em All market.

I'd find these two things, while a bit more expensive to the player, a cool rules update idea. But then I'm a person that like tactile props like that in my RPG games. When I play Shadowrun 4 I use poker chips for keeping track of my Edge use (it feels great to toss down a chip to signify burning a point of Edge) and I actually hand crafted custom d6 for playing.

As for the OGL/SRD, I'm with Monte Cook on this one (as linked in the current news on the main page). They'll only toast it if they are stunned. Even more so if the head deeper into mini territory. Why? Because if minis are where they are making their money, and if they exclude minis from the SRD then they get other people to help do their low margin work for them and rake in the mini cash! Duh.

I doubt they'd want to get rid of the DM. Just won't happen.

No, but shifting the majority of rule 0 out of the DM's sole disgression, and either into the group or discouraging it altogether, would mesh far better with minis or cards. As well it'll help in the long run to clear up a number of pathological tendancies at gaming tables.

 

[EricNoah]

This is not a reasonable position. Nobody interested in the game should ever really be "out of the scoop business". It's your hobby, for cryin' out loud! If information comes your way, why shouldn't you share it?

Well what I mean is that I'm not going to juggle 50 e-mails a day, posting every little thing I hear, yadda yadda yadda. There's a reason I stepped down five years ago, and not much has changed.

Also, this episode just cements the fact that I don't have the network of contacts I once did. If I'd had my ear to the ground on this for a while I might have been able to spot some contradictory information.

Plus it didn't feel "fun" this time -- when I heard the info, which I felt to be credible, I was saddened instead of excited. And when I saw my "scoop" posted, I was not excited, I was surprised and a little worried. It all seems to have worked itself out, but despite my light-hearted "regenerating gummi troll" posts and other silliness, I had a pretty nerve-wracking day yesterday over this. My intestinal fortitude is gone.

Ultimately, I think this stuff should come from a fan. I'm not the WotC fan I was at one point. I'm not the D&D player I was at one point. I don't think anyone wants 4E info from someone who isn't particularly excited at the prospect of a new edition. I've heard those people, and right or wrong they're no fun to listen to.

 

[sullivan]

Ultimately, I think this stuff should come from a fan. I'm not the WotC fan I was at one point. I'm not the D&D player I was at one point. I don't think anyone wants 4E info from someone who isn't particularly excited at the prospect of a new edition. I've heard those people, and right or wrong they're no fun to listen to.

That is rock solid reasoning. EN was very obviously based on your excitement for first the potential and then the actualites of 3rd edition D&D. Of taking something you liked and, in your opinion, improving on it drastically by address problems. People of a like minded were drawn towards that.

"Meh" is just going to draw like minded "Meh", and WotC isn't going to want to feed that tasty morsels of semi-intentionally leaked info.

 

[sunfear]

A plan to possibly sell off RPGs entirely?

This one I've heard absolutely nothing about. I know that the power house is still Magic, but I can't believe that Chainmail alone accounts for a larger haul than, or that it would be able to survive without the RPG. It might be that the cost of producing adventures isn't as lucrative as the core material, but ditching all of it and focusing only the minis would be like the auto industry deciding to stop making cars because people buy more wheels. Why would they still be going to press with new material, and even with a new updated core system if they were planning to sell it all off? Maybe it's an inter-Hasbro shuffle?[/QUOTE]

This surprises me greatly. As I recall a few years ago WOTC added Pokemon to the CCG line specifically to funnel money into the magic Pro Tour. The Tour has changed a bit in the last year or so, with the Pro Player club and the Hall of Fame. WOTC is pumping a lot of money into Magic bling bling in terms of the Tour IMO, and I have to wonder if while magic sales are highest, if it is actually not the most profitable line. I would imagine that belongs to Yu-Gi-O or to one of the lesser lines, or very likely DND minis.

The fact is something that targets kids who get their parents to buy it for them sells more product. (Admitted I believe by Mark Rosewater). Thats the whole reason they will start upping minis in the DND. I don't see Hasbro selling off the RPG line at all, thats just too silly an idea. WOTC bought TSR for a reason and those reasons are just, if not more, valid since the OGL.

What I expect to see from 4E, a very flexible game with an OGL, loosly based on 3E but keeping staple aspects of DND. (same races, classes, magic missile, ect.) I see a new line of minis coming out with some kind of lock on it so while the game is OGL the mini line is not and WOTC can pump cheap plastic minis at kids whose parents pay the $$$.

This is total specualtion on my part, I know no rumors, and quite frankly the only thing I hope for in 4E is that Mike Mearls is one of the main guys writing/working on it.

 

[Mark CMG]

A plan to possibly sell off RPGs entirely?

I believe that rumor was outright quashed in a later post, direct to Eric from a definite WotC source, IIRC. Anyone want to confirm that for me, please?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I could easily see WotC getting rid of RPGs and focusing instead on minis. RPGs don't exactly fit into what I see as the typical WotC product. And RPGs are so diverse and capital intensive (vs. simply producing plastic miniatures) that it's easier to focus on toys.

D&D will never die. It might not be sold by WotC anymore, but it'll be sold my somebody.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Hasbro will never get rid of the D&D Trademark. They may give up RPGs, but no other company will have the right to produce D&D.

Companies have been known to repurpose trademarks. There was a recent article in BusinessWeek about a new producer of products at Coke, and things like TAB end up being retooled as an energy drink, for instance.

The SRD and OGL license assures that the 3e form of the game will survive. However, the big problem now will be a virtual Diaspora of D&D fans trying to find a replacement. If this happened a few years ago I'm sure some company would be able to do this. However, many of them have reduced their publishing roles, and those that are left would bring their own changes and/or styles. Like the arguments for against 1e/2e/3e, now there would be different interpretations of 3e.

For instance, with those seeking "classic" AD&D, there's those that play the original rules, there's those that play with OSRIC, with C&C, and those that have moved onto other games, such as Savage Worlds and Lejendary Adventure. What would happen to the 3e market? Who'd take over as leader? I thought Monte Cook's label would be a prime candidate, for instance since he had a loyal following and was one of the 3e designers, but he's leaving gaming. You'd end up with people arguing over "which" heir to the throne would be used.

This will factionalize the D&D line more than it ever has been. There won't be a common bond anymore, and D&D's name recognition will become less about the RPG and more about what WoTC turns it into.