Eric Noah's Info

[Kae'Yoss]

Can we minimize them in rolling hit points, game abilities, and advancing hit points officially? Pretty please?

Actually, I don't mind it. I'll never use random rolling again, but it's not as if it's something that takes a lot of effort to change.

Sometimes I like using dice for ability scores.

As I've seen people tearing games apart because they rolled godly (and didn't cheat, either) and completely dominated the game on low levels (and were very strong on other levels, too), I stick with point buy. I seldom saw the opposite case (someone rolling low), since that sort of thing was usually rerolled.

And for those who say PB takes longer: I don't think so. Usually, you'll have to roll in front of the DM, one at a time, and that takes some time. With PB, you go ahead and assign the stats - and you can do so at home.

And if you want some randomness, you can still do so:

There's the TDA method from Dragon where your scores depend on the cards (but are still confirming to the Point Buy method, since the random part is just assigning the stats).

You could do something similar with Dice:

Take a D6 and start rolling, adding up numbers in row. If you want, you can skip one or more, or roll more than one die at a time for stats. Add up the numbers rolled for each stat until the sum reaches the Point Buy Limit (If you roll too much, cut it down to size)

You can do this in row (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, or starting somewhere in the row and going round) or with 6 stats you later assign.

Example

Say we want to roll in row. I want a tank fighter with 35 point buy, so I start with Str - and roll two times in a row for Str.

I get 6 and 3 -> 9. Dex gets 1. Con (rolled 2x again) 4 and 5, too. Int is skipped. Wis is 2. Cha 3.

Str 9
Dex 1
Con 9
Int 0
Wis 2
Cha 3
-----
24 Points.

I start again: 4 Str, 1 Dex, 3 Con, 0 Int, 0 Wis, 2 Cha.

Str 13, Dex 2, Con 12, Int 0, Wis 2, Cha 5

34 points.

Since you can't buy anything with 12 points, I just up it to 13.

That gives me Str 17, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 13.


You can play around with it a bit - this was just a quick idea.

Hit points I'd probably like better if it's half random and half set. For example, a barbarian's HP each level would be 1d6+6, a fighter's 1d5+5, cleric 1d4+4, etc. (With max HP at 1st level.)

I could probably live with fixed HP though.

That's neither here nor there, if you ask me (and if you ask me not, it's still neither here nor there).

I played with Average rounded up (d10 -> 6), 3/4 (d10 -> 7).

In my campaign setting (where I'd have changed the classes), I'd have gone with fixed hit points instead of HD. So a Rogue would get 4+Con per level, not 1d6+Con. You'd get double HP at 1st (1st level Rogue with Con 14: 12 HP).

I hope 4E is dramatically different than 3E.

I hope not. The system is pretty damn great. Several details need fine tuning (and some need a complete overhauling, I give you that), but Since the game is not nearly as much a mess as AD&D 2e, it doesn't need to be scrapped and made again from scratch.

I'm no subscriber to the "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is" pholosophy.

My wishlist: make 4E a subscription. You pay $x / month,

If they turn D&D into Warcraft for Dice, I'm out. I don't want to be forced to pay money to keep using the stuff I already bought.

and for that you get online access to continually-updated rules, character storage accessible from everywhere,

How does that include my gaming room, where there is no computer and no internet connection? How does that include the lodge we often play in during summer? How does that work outside, where we also often play during summer?

How does that enable me to read the rulebook in the bed? I can live with falling asleep with the book - but not with the notebook.

I don't want to be forced to access the net to roleplay. I want books. Leave monthly subscriptions to Blizzard.


Further down, you write that you want to make the books optional. I think it's supposed to be the other way around: Make the electronic version optional. I don't even see the need for a monthly subscription. Get a free e-book with the book (every book has a serial key to unlock the books, and maybe a CD inlcuded), and get updates from the website - like you'd get errata.

The DB is a bonus.

I mean, the other day I sat down to make a new character, a 6th level warforged fighter/artificer. I had to move from my (very large) dining room table to the FLOOR, because I had literally 8 books open at any one time: PHB, Eberron CS, Races of Eberron, Complete Fighter, Complete Adventurer, Heroes of Battle, Complete Arcane, Magic of Eberron... it was ridiculous.

We had a character like this - always going through all books to find a spell or feat or PrC that makes the character even better.

I made a character the other day, too. I have 8 books here, too (PHB, DMG, FRCS, PGTF, Underdark, PHB2, CAdv, RotW). I made it sitting in front of my PC.

I think what you need is a better book organization during character creation

WotC can then sell individual virtual minis, each of which comes with complete stats (stored in the same database as the characters) so that the program can calculate combat.

You lost me for good at this point. Buying virtual minis? No way in all the lower planes.

I know DMs who have had to invest in big piece of rolling luggage just to carry their game libraries to games. Ridiculous.

I just declared my home the gaming place. BAM! Problem solved.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

So I sent my friend the info on the main site here, and he asked some people he knows at Wizards if it is true or not, and this is the reply he got back (which he sent to me).

From my friends at Wizards, this is the light I can shed:

4E already in the works?

4th Ed has been "in the works" since 3rd ed went to press without development being finished. This unfortunately is standard operating procedure and why so many games seem to have not been properly playtested.

Even more miniatures-centric?

Combat is not only the most popular part of the game, it's also the most marketable.

Much smaller bundles of game info, packaged and sold separately?

They'd be keeping the core setup roughly the same, they'd just be offering more specialized and fluff material. The class books, feat books, creature type books, etc, always sell really well. On top of that a huge chunk of the player base are completionists and collectors.

A plan to possibly sell off RPGs entirely?

This one I've heard absolutely nothing about. I know that the power house is still Magic, but I can't believe that Chainmail alone accounts for a larger haul than, or that it would be able to survive without the RPG. It might be that the cost of producing adventures isn't as lucrative as the core material, but ditching all of it and focusing only the minis would be like the auto industry deciding to stop making cars because people buy more wheels. Why would they still be going to press with new material, and even with a new updated core system if they were planning to sell it all off? Maybe it's an inter-Hasbro shuffle?

"Chainmail"? Wasn't that gone in like, 2001? WTF? Can we assume he means DDM, or should we just consider the entire email extremely suspect?

Quick Rant: If these rumours are more truthful than not, I'm dissapointed that the future of D&D isn't planned to be more integrated with technology. My time is limited, and stat blocks take for ever, even relatively simple tasks like advancing a monster, applying templates, or choosing skills & spells. The preparation for games would be a breeze if a supplement I bought could come with a software download to integrate mechanics into the master generator. I'm not a programmer, and I don't want to be one. Filling in data into MS Access for each new option is not my idea of playing a game. Make it easy to use the latest program to build/modify a PC for goodness sake... A game with re-designed rules to make this possible would be my fantasy 4E. I like some of Zaruthustran's ideas above. I'd buy more supplements if they were easier to use! It doesn't need to be a subscription though, you should be able to buy what you want based on a companion sourcebook. The books would have the flavor and description of the rules. The soft updates would only have the data, so would be relatively useless without the book to understand the rule set. The game could still be playable without technology at all - just an option to facilitate preparation for those that want it.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

"Chainmail"? Wasn't that gone in like, 2001? WTF? Can we assume he means DDM, or should we just consider the entire email extremely suspect?

I assumed it was just a troll. I mean, really, would people working at WotC really say things like "4th Ed has been "in the works" since 3rd ed went to press without development being finished. This unfortunately is standard operating procedure and why so many games seem to have not been properly playtested" even under anonymity? I mean, they'd have to really, really trust whoever they're saying that to to never hint at their identity. I'll admit to the (slight) possibility, but come on...it just seems like a classic troll, to me. The Chainmail bit tipped the troll's hand, in my opinion. Someone that much on the inside forgets Chainmail's been gone for years now, or gets it confused with DDM?

 

[dcas]

The Chainmail bit tipped the troll's hand, in my opinion. Someone that much on the inside forgets Chainmail's been gone for years now, or gets it confused with DDM?

The other possibility is that some WOTC insiders refer to DDM contemptuously as "Chainmail" (not that I think it's a term of opprobrium but a WOTC insider might).

 

[WayneLigon]

I strongly hope that the 'smaller packets of information' break things up into smaller, cheaper books that you can mix and match as needed. Such as:

Basic Book - The true core rules. The four basic classes (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard), a selection of spells and monsters and magic items, and you're done.

Advanced Classes - The rest of the classes we know, probably mixed with some of the more normal of the Complete Book classes.

Classes II - The stranger stuff? Or maybe prestige classes, or whatever replaces them.

Advanced Something or Other - More complex combat rules

An advanced monster manual with all the customizing information, templates, and such, plus more monsters. There would be other books that break monsters out by type. I would not mind seeing all underdark and extraplanar monsters shuffled off to their own books. I strongly suspect that the majority of the major common creature types will wind up in their own books: dragons, undead, constructs, aquatic creatures, giants and monstrous humanoids. There would be a smattering of those, 1-3 representatives of each type, in the basic game.

 

[WayneLigon]

A note about all the people saying they will just continue playing 3E/3.5: I've heard that before. 'No, we won't go to 3.5'. Well, the majority of you will, in fact, go to the next edition. The FLGS has a five-foot-wide nine-foot-tall bookscase full of 3.0 stuff - a lot of it good 3.0 stuff, not the cheap quickly-prduced garbage - at 75% off that has maybe moved one or two books in the last year that says otherwise.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

A note about all the people saying they will just continue playing 3E/3.5: I've heard that before. 'No, we won't go to 3.5'. Well, the majority of you will, in fact, go to the next edition. The FLGS has a five-foot-wide nine-foot-tall bookscase full of 3.0 stuff - a lot of it good 3.0 stuff, not the cheap quickly-prduced garbage - at 75% off that has maybe moved one or two books in the last year that says otherwise.

Well I played 1st ed until 3rd came out - the only 2nd ed stuff I bought was Spelljammer and Undermountain - we used 1st ed rules. If I don't like 4th (and I won't know until I see actual info) I'll keep playing my 3.0/3.5 that I play now.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Well, perhaps I'm part of the minority rather than the majority, but I didn't like 2E, and didn't move to it. I saw no need for 3.5, and didn't move to it. If I don't like 4E, I won't move to it, either.

 

[National Acrobat]

Well, perhaps I'm part of the minority rather than the majority, but I didn't like 2E, and didn't move to it. I saw no need for 3.5, and didn't move to it. If I don't like 4E, I won't move to it, either.

I'm an even smaller minority.

While I'll gladly play 3.5 I refuse to run 3.0/3.5 so when it's my turn to GM our group, it's 1E ADnD or Castles and Crusades.

It's worked well for us.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I hope not. The system is pretty damn great. Several details need fine tuning (and some need a complete overhauling, I give you that), but Since the game is not nearly as much a mess as AD&D 2e, it doesn't need to be scrapped and made again from scratch.

I'm no subscriber to the "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is" pholosophy.

I think we agree on this. I think the current edition is fine, from a core mechanics standpoint. So a "4th edition" that is just more of the same would be a waste. And therefore, if they do make a 4th Edition, it should not be more of the same--it should be dramatically different.

If they turn D&D into Warcraft for Dice, I'm out. I don't want to be forced to pay money to keep using the stuff I already bought.

I'm not advocating a complex 3D online gaming world. I'm advocating a subscription-based service as the best way to:

1) monetize the legions of D&D players who, for whatever reason, don't buy minis and supplements/don't provide new revenue to WotC after they buy the three core books.
2) distribute errata and encourage players to actually *use* any new material they do buy, by incorporating a rules-flawless character generator and storage system.

I've seen more than one person comment that the new Tome of Battle book is too confusing, and that they won't buy it for that reason. The ENWorld staff reviewer spent a half hour trying to create a character and couldn't figure out how to calculate his various feats and bonuses. So wouldn't it be great if WotC's online character generator handled all the BS work for you? Bonus: being forced to enter all the variables into the chargen system and test it would reveal many bugs and inconsistencies that currently make their way into the printed books.

How does that include my gaming room, where there is no computer and no internet connection? How does that include the lodge we often play in during summer? How does that work outside, where we also often play during summer?

It's called wireless networking. Look into it.

Seriously though, the books will still be there if you want them, either in bound or printable PDF form. Your complaint is a non-issue.

I don't want to be forced to access the net to roleplay. I want books. Leave monthly subscriptions to Blizzard.

Again, I'm not advocating online 3D worlds. Surely you currently enjoy subscription-based entertainment: cable, Dragon magazine, the ISP you're using to access ENWorld. A $2-$5 a month fee for what I'm describing is reasonable.

Further down, you write that you want to make the books optional. I think it's supposed to be the other way around: Make the electronic version optional. I don't even see the need for a monthly subscription. Get a free e-book with the book (every book has a serial key to unlock the books, and maybe a CD inlcuded), and get updates from the website - like you'd get errata.

The DB is a bonus.

In the situation you describe, each player is responsible for seeking out errata and updating their personal collection. In the situation I describe, the errata is pushed to all users at once. Everyone is playing from the same rules. Isn't that one of the goals of 3E?

We had a character like this - always going through all books to find a spell or feat or PrC that makes the character even better.

For better or worse, that has become the focus of the D&D game: character optimization. If you're not creating a character with efficiency and effectiveness in mind, you're not playing the same game as WotC's most important customers.

Meaning, the customers that continue to buy all the new books with all the new feats and PRCs and other character-enhancing doodads. 3.5, by design, is all about enhancing the character and overcoming monsters in combat.

I made a character the other day, too. I have 8 books here, too (PHB, DMG, FRCS, PGTF, Underdark, PHB2, CAdv, RotW). I made it sitting in front of my PC.

I think what you need is a better book organization during character creation

True. I need a single, online database I can access from anywhere in the world, that keeps track of all this stuff for me, and auto-updates my character sheet.

You lost me for good at this point. Buying virtual minis? No way in all the lower planes.

See this game:

http://www.poxnora.com/index.do

It's generating quite a buzz.

I just declared my home the gaming place. BAM! Problem solved.

Problem solved for you. What about the other players? Convention-goers? Students who game in publicly-owned spaces?

Like Egon says, "Print is dead."

Or should be, anyway.

-z