D&D 5E Escaping from (rope) bonds... What is your ruling?
- Thread starter ezo
- Start date
Or we've seen one & think that some scenarios lean more towards the strengths of shows like leverage & movies like Lift than the average "action movie"?Some of you have never seen an action adventure movie and it shows.
Setting a super high DC or nigh impossible standard for escaping rope bonds might be "realistic" but it certainly doesn't lean into the kinds of scenarios the game is designed to emulate.
I don't think 5E is really built to support DC 40 checks or nigh impossible standards, and so you end up making the players feel railroaded or punished when you employ that stuff. YMMV of course.
Horwath
Legend
maybe narrative demands capture for progress of the story, but you still want to open tiny possibility of escape if someone is so much focused on that aspect of the character.
aco175
Legend
Some of this also could go to other checks like allowing Athletics to charge into a door to force it open instead of just a STR check. Not sure how far to go before getting into the 4e realm of wizards attacking with INT since they can 'analyze' where the opponent might be or the cleric 'wisdoming' the movements of the bad guy.
I would tend to scale the DC in certain circumstances like the this. If I was looking for an escape- Acrobatics DC15 check I may allow a Slight of Hands DC18 check if the player comes up with something.
I would tend to scale the DC in certain circumstances like the this. If I was looking for an escape- Acrobatics DC15 check I may allow a Slight of Hands DC18 check if the player comes up with something.
Well You are partly correct, by RAW it doesn't even seem to support the GM being able to declare something impossible.
Ability Checks
An ability check tests a character’s or monster’s innate
talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge.
The DM calls for an ability check when a character or
monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that
has a chance of failure. W hen the outcome is uncertain,
the dice determine the results.
For every ability check, the DM decides which of the six
abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty
of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class. The more
difficult a task, the higher its DC. The Typical Difficulty
Classes table show s the most com m on DCs.
T y p i c a l D i f f i c u l t y C l a s s e s
Task Difficulty DC
Very easy 5
Easy 10
Medium 15
Hard 20
Very hard 25
Nearly impossible 30
To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the
relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply
bonuses and penalties, and com pare the total to the DC.
If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check
is a success—the creature overcomes the challenge
at hand. Otherwise, it’s a failure, which means the
character or monster makes no progress toward the
objective or makes progress combined with a setback
determined by the DM.
An ability check tests a character’s or monster’s innate
talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge.
The DM calls for an ability check when a character or
monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that
has a chance of failure. W hen the outcome is uncertain,
the dice determine the results.
For every ability check, the DM decides which of the six
abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty
of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class. The more
difficult a task, the higher its DC. The Typical Difficulty
Classes table show s the most com m on DCs.
T y p i c a l D i f f i c u l t y C l a s s e s
Task Difficulty DC
Very easy 5
Easy 10
Medium 15
Hard 20
Very hard 25
Nearly impossible 30
To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the
relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply
bonuses and penalties, and com pare the total to the DC.
If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check
is a success—the creature overcomes the challenge
at hand. Otherwise, it’s a failure, which means the
character or monster makes no progress toward the
objective or makes progress combined with a setback
determined by the DM.
Horwath
Legend
T y p i c a l D i f f i c u l t y C l a s s e s
Task Difficulty DC
Very easy 5
Easy 10
Medium 15
Hard 20
Very hard 25
Nearly impossible 30
nearly impossible should be better defined:
Is it nearly impossible to make it as an average Joe or is it nearly impossible to make the check reliably on regular basis?
+10 bonus is not so hard to get:
+4 ability and expertise at 4th level and you have +10, throw in Guidance and Help action and you are getting maybe 25% chance to get to DC30.
at 17th level that +10 goes to +17, with again Guidance and Help you are looking at some 75% success rate. That is not nearly Impossible.
Task Difficulty DC
Very easy 5
Easy 10
Medium 15
Hard 20
Very hard 25
Nearly impossible 30
nearly impossible should be better defined:
Is it nearly impossible to make it as an average Joe or is it nearly impossible to make the check reliably on regular basis?
+10 bonus is not so hard to get:
+4 ability and expertise at 4th level and you have +10, throw in Guidance and Help action and you are getting maybe 25% chance to get to DC30.
at 17th level that +10 goes to +17, with again Guidance and Help you are looking at some 75% success rate. That is not nearly Impossible.
Eww.
What do you mean? It says right in your quote that the GM calls for a roll if the outcome is uncertain, not that the GM is required to allow a roll.
I said "feel railroaded or punished" for a reason.
I can't think of a situation in actual play at a table that would benefit from tying the PCs up and throwing them in a cell and then letting the players fail at trying to get out for and hour or two before them just giving up. If you must (for the "narrative") tie them up, just move on to the next time they have agency.
ezo
Hero
Hmm... interesting idea.
But I think Sailor has Athletics because of climbing the rigging on ships, and depending how much stock you put into history (or not in this case) swimming. Even jumping and swining on ropes/ rigging was probably part of it.
I don't think a super high DC is right, but it depends on how "super high" we're talking, right?
However, even with the optional rule in Xanathar's, the DC to escape or untie should be the Intelligence (Sleight of Hand) roll + 5. If you think about it, few creatures (even sailors) will have Sleight of Hand proficiency (even if they do, +2 probably) nor a high Intelligence (so +1 at best probably). That would set the typical DC to escape at 13. So, 40% chance to escape being bound, of course higher with a bonus?!?
No, I don't think so. But add the +5 to the roll, and average DC 18 makes it harder, but still 15% chance (without any bonus!) and likely a bit higher. It is also closer to the DC 17 to break via Strength (which is also too low IMO).
Now, you have a creature with high Intelligence (sure, it happens) and Sleight of Hand proficiency (very unlikely...), with the added +5 bonus you will occasionally get DC's in the 20s. For Joe Average, that becomes effectively impossible, and could be for PCs with low Dexterity modifier and no Acrobatics proficiency, but such PCs should have a very hard if not impossible time to escape being tied up this way (particularly by somone who tied the knots very well...).
Finally, as an aside silk rope (which is slimmer than hemp rope) should have a higher DC as well. Helps make it worth the cost since the standard rules for encumbrance makes the weight a non-issue.
I guess somewhere along the line I decided I did not want to model the world and the laws of physics anymore, and would rather model the genre I was aiming for. And in the action adventure genre, rope bonds are at worst a inconvenience and usually act simply to make a clock (the room is on fire, or you have been thrown overboard) more exciting.
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