Essentials (Comments)

[Geffor]

Speaking as someone who has often (and, at times, regularly) worn plate and has also fallen off a horse while doing so ...

There is no problem getting up but, especially after falling off a horse, it can take some time to realise that you are lying down

Cartwheels are perfectly possible if you are capable of performing cartwheels without the plate, alas I am no longer part of this group

 

[Dausuul]

You hang out with people who regularly wear plate mail?

No, wait, dont respond. Im not sure I want to know...

The overlap between SCA members and D&D players is huge. I daresay we have a substantial presence in other re-enactor groups as well. And then there's LARPing.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I fell out of a two story window in chain mail onto cobblestones and nearly broke my freaken leg.

fighting needlefang drake swarms was easy after that.

...what?

 

[Jhaelen]

That is a mix of urban myth and misattribution. Field Plate wasn't that heavy - people can do cartwheels in it.

I think what typically causes the varying opinions on what you can and cannot do in armor is that people forget that armor crafting has evolved a lot over the centuries. You cannot compare armor created in the end of the 17th century with the bronze field plate armor worn by the Ancient Greek.

IIRC, the guy in the video doing cartwheels in plate armor is wearing a modern reproduction of 15th century armor. This doesn't tell us a lot about what a knight in the 12th century or an even earlier time might have been able to do wearing a full suit of plate armor.

It's like comparing a hand ax with a bardiche.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think what typically causes the varying opinions on what you can and cannot do in armor is that people forget that armor crafting has evolved a lot over the centuries. You cannot compare armor created in the end of the 17th century with the bronze field plate armor worn by the Ancient Greek.

IIRC, the guy in the video doing cartwheels in plate armor is wearing a modern reproduction of 15th century armor. This doesn't tell us a lot about what a knight in the 12th century or an even earlier time might have been able to do wearing a full suit of plate armor.

It's like comparing a hand ax with a bardiche.

Possibly. But wearing armour you could not stand up in on the battlefield is so monumentally stupid given how easy a horse is to kill that other than for exceptional purposes armour has, as far as I know, always stayed below that weight. At least for people who didn't want to die.

 

[Bluenose]

I think what typically causes the varying opinions on what you can and cannot do in armor is that people forget that armor crafting has evolved a lot over the centuries. You cannot compare armor created in the end of the 17th century with the bronze field plate armor worn by the Ancient Greek.

IIRC, the guy in the video doing cartwheels in plate armor is wearing a modern reproduction of 15th century armor. This doesn't tell us a lot about what a knight in the 12th century or an even earlier time might have been able to do wearing a full suit of plate armor.

It's like comparing a hand ax with a bardiche.

I'd have to search for it, but a lot of Roman tombstones describe the great deeds of the person they're commemorating. One for a soldier mentions the award he received from the then-Emperor, after he swam across the Danube - and back - while wearing his armour and carrying his weapons. So forty-plus pounds of gear didn't stop him swimming a fairly large river.

 

[KarinsDad]

Possibly. But wearing armour you could not stand up in on the battlefield is so monumentally stupid given how easy a horse is to kill that other than for exceptional purposes armour has, as far as I know, always stayed below that weight. At least for people who didn't want to die.

A horse is only easy to kill for trained troops (untrained troops typically flee from charging cavalry). Most troops weren't trained. Most trained cavalry were not wasted on trained infantry with any sort of polearm. That's what archers were for. And for those few knights that could afford some level of barding, it wasn't easy to kill a horse at all.

But you are right. The weight of combat armor rarely got up above 50 pounds or so. It was often less than that, especially before the wide spread use of firearms.

 

[Dausuul]

But you are right. The weight of combat armor rarely got up above 50 pounds or so. It was often less than that, especially before the wide spread use of firearms.

Indeed. The guys doing cartwheels may have been wearing reproduction armor, but museums have genuine suits of armor from the Middle Ages and people have put them on the scales. 50 pounds is typical.

Weight aside, reproduction arms and armor tend to be, if anything, clumsier and more hindering than genuine medieval equipment. Medieval smiths had centuries to refine their craft, with plenty of feedback from people who went out and fought in armor for a living. Modern smiths are trying to re-create their work secondhand.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think what typically causes the varying opinions on what you can and cannot do in armor is that people forget that armor crafting has evolved a lot over the centuries. You cannot compare armor created in the end of the 17th century with the bronze field plate armor worn by the Ancient Greek.

IIRC, the guy in the video doing cartwheels in plate armor is wearing a modern reproduction of 15th century armor. This doesn't tell us a lot about what a knight in the 12th century or an even earlier time might have been able to do wearing a full suit of plate armor.

It's like comparing a hand ax with a bardiche.

I don't know what videos might be going about, but I've seen demonstrations at the Royal Armoury in Leeds (UK), with men in plate armour leaping around during a mock fight and even doing a 'kip up' at one point. Full plate that was in use in the time of Henry VIII (~500 years ago) didn't restrict the agility of their wearers one whit.

So I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss things.

Cheers

 

[Gort]

I don't know what videos might be going about, but I've seen demonstrations at the Royal Armoury in Leeds (UK), with men in plate armour leaping around during a mock fight and even doing a 'kip up' at one point. Full plate that was in use in the time of Henry VIII (~500 years ago) didn't restrict the agility of their wearers one whit.

So I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss things.

Cheers

Those demonstrations are totally awesome and everyone should see them. I remember the first time I went to the Armouries, they had actual knights actually jousting, breaking actual lances on each other. It was fantastic to watch.

Cartwheels are perfectly possible if you are capable of performing cartwheels without the plate, alas I am no longer part of this group

Don't worry, just get one of those breastplates with the ridiculously defined pectoral and abdominal muscles embossed on it - your gut will fit it like jelly in a mould!