Essentials: why the hate?

[Tequila Sunrise]

I don't hate essentials...but the classes give me the NO feeling. I'm a design & mechanics guy, and the E wave just feels like a step backward to the bad ol' days of linear muggles and quadratic casters. I ban them on that basis.

I realize this isn't entirely rational, but I make no apologies.

 

[CM]

I am DMing two games and playing in a third, and I think that, of all 20 or so characters that have come through, only one has been an essentials character. This may be because our campaigns tend to run long and people are attached to their characters and just haven't had a chance to try out the new stuff yet.

Personally I have nothing against the essentials books and am grateful for any new D&D content that is usable for both AEDU and essentials characters. I don't think I would play an essentials class though, because I like the flexibility of the AEDU classes. If I were to have someone new to 4th edition join a campaign however, I might recommend an essentials class due to their straightforwardness (with the option to rebuild their character as an AEDU class if they get bored with it).

If anything, I think what sours people the most on essentials might be the perceived imbalance between essentials feats and earlier feats. The current number of useless feats in the game is one of my D&D pet peeves. I'd like to see weak feats buffed to the essentials feat level or removed from the game entirely (or relegated to a "deprecated" list and kept for archival purpose). Going through the feat list in the character builder is getting more and more difficult, and there appears to be no easy solution in sight.

Finally, the changes to the daily magic item limits may have been a sore spot for some. 4e was a breath of fresh air in terms of magic item christmas tree effect. As a character, it no longer paid to carry a dozen items with daily powers because you could only utilize a scant few of them each day. Then essentials comes along and does away with that entire system, putting the onus of item balance back on the DM's shoulders. I have been thinking of using a hybrid system myself, but that is for another thread.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Major Moab]

Regarding Essentials:

I play an Essentials mage (enchanter specifically). And I like the character far more than I believe I would enjoy a comparable Wizard. But I will admit there are a few flaws.

Pros:
-Mages are internally powered. Take away my implement, and I am still a wizard. 4E wizards are defined by their weapon, and that *feels* a little "Harry Potter" to me.
-Mages have an organic progression. They don't wake up on some morning (say when they hit level 11) and decide they want to be a specific type of wizard. It grows in the character from level 1.
-Mages are versatile. I pick two powers each level and can use either of them after a good nights sleep. I don't feel like the choice I make at level x pidgeon holes me into something.
Cons:
-Mages are impatient. I don't learn rituals without extra effort the wizard doesn't require. I explained this in my characters personality, but it is a MAJOR drawback to utility of the character.
-Mages are pigeon holed. While this seems contradictory to a previous statement, the prestige classes all *feel* terribly forced except the Enigmatic essentials path. And the variety there is not exceptional.

As far as the other classes go, it seems a little over defined as I look at them. I can't be a paladin that I define as he evolves. I have to pick his personality when I make him. Similarly, the rogue who develops into a thief or assassin doesn't exist. They are all Lady Gaga'd, i.e. "Born that Way."

I can't explain why other people hate Essentials. All I can say is what I like and dislike about them.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Regarding Essentials:

Cons:
-Mages are impatient. I don't learn rituals without extra effort the wizard doesn't require. I explained this in my characters personality, but it is a MAJOR drawback to utility of the character.

The Arcanist Wizard in my game is considering switching from that to a Mage, and he was of the same thinking - until another player described the lack of ritual casting as "being able to buy an extra at will for a feat". The reasoning behind that is the Arcanist's player found the Mage's schools and the Arcanist's implement specialisation roughtly equal - meaning the big differences (for him) were the lack of ritual casting but extra at-wills of the Mage.

Described that way, said player found the swap much more enticing - though admittedly he is the type that thinks getting another power is generally worth a feat.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Besides that, there are several good multiclass feats that net you a skill training AND ritual caster, or the Dragonmark feat (if allowed) Mark of Scribing that gives +2 Diplomacy and four languages.

Though technically MoS only lets you learn rituals as though you had the ritual caster feat, without actually granting it, if that matters for anything.

 

[Osgood]

Speaking from personal experience, my initial reaction to the Essentials Martial classes was very negative. I felt the loss of power options and reliance on MBA cut into my favorite thing about 4E.
To test them out, I built a couple, but I was utterly unimpressed with them.

Some time later, one of my players made an Executioner Assassin. While it has more options than a Slayer of Thief, that player strongly disliked the class. He would look longingly at the other players using Encounter and Daily powers before glumly throwing out another basic attack. On average, he cannot touch the damage laid out by the party paladin, much less the group's rogue. The entire party feels the character is more of a hindrance than an asset.

Over the summer I played a Hexblade. Though similar to traditional 4E classes, and fairly competent in a battle, I was very dissatisfied with playing the character, largely due to the limited choices of powers, feats and paragon paths (almost all warlock stuff is built around the curses). The character did his job, dishing out damage, but was not enjoyable to play, particularly at level up.

These experiences may not be typical, but they have dramatically shaped my perception of the Essentials line. I have not made any restrictions in my campaign, but I have not had a single player wish to use anything beyond the feats from the essentials.

 

[herrozerro]

Some time later, one of my players made an Executioner Assassin. While it has more options than a Slayer of Thief, that player strongly disliked the class. He would look longingly at the other players using Encounter and Daily powers before glumly throwing out another basic attack. On average, he cannot touch the damage laid out by the party paladin, much less the group's rogue. The entire party feels the character is more of a hindrance than an asset.
.

I dont know where you are getting this, my executioner player loves her class, she is constantly doing massive amounts of damage each and every attack. Not including the use of her atwills and poisons for even more damage.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

The biggest disappointment for me is the lack of essentials class feats and lack of choices when it comes to powers. Sure some classes don't really follow this but most classes do with regards to powers selection and I don't like it.

 

[Bluenose]

I don't hate essentials...but the classes give me the NO feeling. I'm a design & mechanics guy, and the E wave just feels like a step backward to the bad ol' days of linear muggles and quadratic casters. I ban them on that basis.

I realize this isn't entirely rational, but I make no apologies.

I don't particularly care for the E-type non-casters, but that's more because I don't find them particularly interesting tactically. I don't think there's much sign that the quadratic caster is making a comeback. The way defences are calculated hasn't changed, and that goes a long way to keep caster power in check. Another thing that does that is the inability of casters to totally revise their spellcasting to suit a situation. Add the reduction in protective spells and self-buffs and you've changed the caster/mundane equation significantly.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yes the essentials feats are very very strong. I can imagine players wanting to snag them.