evasion and pocketed friends - what would you do?

[Marimmar@Home]

I'd let everyone roll their own saves, everything else would be likely abused in the future so I'll stop it before it gets out of hand.

(No, I don't care for reasoning when a easily setup situation could pose problems in the future.)

~Marimmar

 

[Ferret]

Druid in front pocket and the rogue had his back to fire ball, no damage to the druid (the druid can be used as cover) other way around and the druid takes damage (can't use the rogue as cover). I don't know how you'd decide that, maybe make the DC higher but to what level?

 

[KarinsDad]

OK, here is the situation. The rogue is scouting and the druid is wildshaped into a tiny animal and going along in one of his pockets. The rogue sets off a fireball trap - makes his save and evades all damage.

Does the druid

a) ignore all damage because he was in the pocket of the rogue who evaded

b) make a saving throw as normal because he is just another entity in the spread radius

c) something else

?

The logical answer is a).

The answer according to the rules is b) (the druid is not an object carried by the rogue, he is a creature carried by the rogue).

If the rules do not make sense to you, rule 0 it to answer a.

But, since this is a rules forum, the answer is b).

 

[Davek]

Evading the blast may very well involve flinging oneself to the side in a violent manner. The rogue may not sustain damage, but the small relatively fragile critter in his pocket may find itself ground into the dirt (while within the shirt) during the evasion attempt.

You might want to have a separate effect come into play in this type of situation, the critter is not subject to the original blast, but they might be affected by the evasion, or even fall out of the pocket and get stepped on or what have you.

This type of resolution would add flavor and help to discourage abuse.

 

[sumi]

The logical answer is a).

The answer according to the rules is b) (the druid is not an object carried by the rogue, he is a creature carried by the rogue).

If the rules do not make sense to you, rule 0 it to answer a.

But, since this is a rules forum, the answer is b).

What difference does it make if he is a creature not an object?

I was involved in this event - 'the robin' was totally in the pocket - it did not have any view, provide any assistance, have any spells running. It was going to be sent back when the coast was clear with instructions from the Rogue in how to find him. Therefore, he was technically an object in his pocket - not hanging out on the edge.

What if the creature was sitting in his closed mouth, would that have made any difference?
As to the Paladin's horse, the paladin is not exactly sitting in the horse when it tries to evade, nor is it going to be able to protect him from the blast.

 

[Plane Sailing]

What difference does it make if he is a creature not an object?

Well, it is a fundamental distinction in game terminology

The simple solution is that everyone always makes their own saving throw. The druid should probably have got a cover bonus for being in the pocket, but still make his own saving throw nonetheless.

Otherwise, what would have happened if the rogue had failed his save? Do you assume that the druid has automatically failed too? What if there is a storm giant rogue, in whose pocket is a halfling rogue, in whose pocket is diminutive fey rogue. What kind of cascade of saving throws would be required in that circumstance if you didn't just say "everyone makes their own save"?

Similarly, what if the druid was riding in the pocket of a wizard protected with "protection from fire"? All the wizards objects would be protected, his familiar would be protected via "share spells" but I don't think the druid should be.

I'm really leaning strongly towards the simplest solution (everyone makes their own saves) but allow for a cover bonus if carried by someone much larger than you (the druid in the pocket scenario)

Regards,

 

[Elrik_DarkFury]

Poor Druid .
(did they bring him back from the dead? -his death was kind of lame)


__________________
The Wizard

 

[sumi]

Poor Druid .
(did they bring him back from the dead? -his death was kind of lame)


__________________
The Wizard

No, as the Druid was our only healing power.

We are weeks away from the nearest habitation and in the middle of hunting down the father of all White dragons hopefully with the help of an army of frost giants - otherwise we are popsicles. The reverse of the Druid!!

I still disagree with you plane sailing, as he was within the confines of the clothing of the person with that ability.

Will the person in the Remorhaz have to save if the party blasts it with magical powers?????

 

[Plane Sailing]

I still disagree with you plane sailing, as he was within the confines of the clothing of the person with that ability.

So how would you answer my questions above then? How would you rule if the rogue had failed his save? How would you rule in the "cascade" scenario above?

I have no hesitation in saying that if the druid had changed into a tapeworm and been ingested by the rogue I would consider him to be entirely covered by the rogues save. That would be somewhat more of a committment than riding in a pocket

Cheers

 

[drnuncheon]

I'd rule that the druid being carried by the rogue rather than moving about under his own power allows/forces him to use the rogue's reflex save rather than his own.

This might seem to cause problems later, if people suddenly jump onto the rogue's back to get the benefit of his evasion - but that is easily fixed by remembering that the rogue must have a light load or less to use evasion:

From the Rogue class description: Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor.

From the Encumbrance section: A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.

For PS's cascade, assuming that the collection of rogues were not enough to make the largest one go over the Light encumbrance category, I'd let them all gain the benefit of the largest one's reflex save/evasion - and if the big guy blew it, well, that's the chance they took by riding with him rather than going it on their own.

None of this is directly supported by the rules, but sometimes you have to make judgement calls. That's why there's a DM and not a computer.

J