Eve of Mirkwood [Full]

[Fenris]

Just a quick note: if players intend to use variant classes, prestige classes or classes from addendum books not found in the core rules, you should allow for the fact that I probably don't have the reference at hand; I don't own Unearthed Arcana, nor do I own Complete Adventurer any more (I lent it to a friend a few months back and he has done a disappearing act) In this case I searched for freely available information about the Scout class and found this on community3e.com

www.community3e.com/dn/class/scout.doc

If this contradicts the official printed version, I'll happily take your word for it

www.d20srd.org has the variant classes from Unearthed Arcana as they are part of the SRD.

Link

 

[Dlsharrock]

As I saw it, the logging camp would be somewhere out in the forest, where the trees are big/comprised valuable essences,

Mirkwood is a very dangerous place and none but the Elves who dwell in the halls of Thranduil would risk living there full time (or part time). A logging enterprise wouldn't last long where the trees are tall and thick.

If it's near a town, less than say two hours walk, then you don't really need a homegrown smith, or healer, or a cook for that matter

Yuurs. Ok. How about this: our map's not terribly terribly accurate, but I'm thinking it's the map we'll be using so we'll assume it *is* terribly accurate and sort of ignore the official Tolkien maps a bit . If we do that then we can imagine a third outlet to the south from the Long Lake, this one travelling at the same height as Mirkwood, but ending at sheer cliffs overlooking the Rhovanion plains. On our map, there's an eastern spur in the Mountains of Mirkwood where the River Running probably runs through a pass. Here there'd be alpine wood aplenty (a misnomer I realise ) and let's say a nicely defensible position above the falls where the river drops over the edge of the eastern spur and into the great plains. An adjoining tributary skirts the spur and takes longships travelling up from the wilderness around the spur of the mountain and up to Long Lake. Natural rock formations combined with ledges and man-made walls would provide defence against Mirkwood's horrors while the rocky but wide shore of the river would provide a space for the actual logging interest. The harvesting of trees from the mountainside would always prove dangerous, but we seem to be mustering a fair few warriors.

I was thinking of a Broadbeam dwarf, the actual race, as they are probably not quite at home in Moria with the Longbeards, they've had previous history of cooperation with elves (the building of Menegroth to name one) and weren't involved in the Nogrod fiasco during the first age.

A descendant of the few who fled the destruction of Beleriand and found refuge in Moria? Sounds good.

He's on a hundred year apprentiship of his own devising and Khazad-dum simply doesn't have what it takes.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the dwarf kingdom's first loner!

Now if the camp was *threatened* - physically, politically, financially

I thought I was suggesting the same thing? Financial threats and probable closure, as opposed to a grand earthquake, or mass attack by giant spiders, which I really don't want at the start of the game. What did you have in mind?

Thanks for the link Fenris, very useful, although I'm sure I checked the SRD first. Ah well.
Edit: ah, you mean for your character suggestion. Yes, I have access to that through a friend's character sheet and notes Sorry, I thought you meant the Scout. I haven't been able to find that in any of the OGL stuff online.

 

[Shayuri]

Arr...the Scout isn't OGL is why.

It's sort of a "nature rogue." 1d8 HD, rogue BAB, 8 skillpoints + int, good Ref saves, class skills are a lot like the Ranger with some rogue staples like disable device mixed in. They get trapfinding, a "sneak attack" variant called Skirmish, and rogue powers like Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. They also get some rangery things like Trackless Step, Flawless Stride, Camoflauge, etc... Over the course of their levels they get two boosts to their move speed, at 10' each.

Skirmish gives a bonus to damage, and later on to AC, when the character moves at least 10' to a new square. The damage bonus increases much more slowly than sneak attack, due to the AC boost mixed in. It's +1d6 damage at level 1.

Haven't had time to type it up in detail, but I should be able to when I get home from work tonight. Knock on wood.

Edit - Oh hey! The full class is on Crystalkeep! Yay! http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php

Select the "Base Classes" pdf, and go to page 160. It's all there! Hurrah!

 

[Binder Fred]

Natural rock formations combined with ledges and man-made walls would provide defence against Mirkwood's horrors while the rocky but wide shore of the river would provide a space for the actual logging interest. The harvesting of trees from the mountainside would always prove dangerous, but we seem to be mustering a fair few warriors.

Sounds good! We *are* downstream of Long Lake now though... Instead of splitting the river, might we posit a smaller stream going down from the mountains to Long Lake just to the west? That fast stream on one side and the river on the other would isolate our plateau from the worst of Mirkwoods denizens. Keep the rest the same but we can now sail the logs down the stream and collect at the lake. Acceptable?

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the dwarf kingdom's first loner!

Gimli wasn't exactly surrounded kin you know, and Broadbeams would be few and far between to begin with. But, now that you mention it, we *could* posit a posse of fellow dwarves, say half a dozen or so (the fellowship of the beam? . The conspirators have made their pact, then scattered out of Khazad-dum, making their way to locations of interrest in numbers dictated by the dangers and the rewards expected : the most efficient way to go about it, very dwarven. They are next to meet in (your call) years, to update each other on progresses made. In the meanwhile they've set up drop-boxes in likely location, pointed at by Broadbeam trail signs.

I thought I was suggesting the same thing? Financial threats and probable closure, as opposed to a grand earthquake, or mass attack by giant spiders, which I really don't want at the start of the game. What did you have in mind?

Well, "finding alternate sources of income" sounded like finding ways to abandon a sinking ship to me (i.e. go into adventuring, hired jobs or something of the kind) : it's sort of hard to fight the economy of an entire region. If you meant find new ways in which the camp could become profitable again, then that's a different story.

What did you have in mind? The aformentionned spider silk gathering maybe? Expeditions into the forest would certainly stir things up, and while it might be difficult to get every character involved in the gathering itself, it would certainly be possible to involve *everybody* in a rescue attempt (should something.. untoward happen to the gatherers).

To re-state it, my original idea was to put the camp at the center of elf-human tensions, tensions created by a sudden increase in outright strip cutting, said tensions being fomented by parties who have an interrest in such a situation <hint, hint>

Binder Fred, slowly swimming out of it.

 

[Dlsharrock]

Sounds good! We *are* downstream of Long Lake now though... Instead of splitting the river, might we posit a smaller stream going down from the mountains to Long Lake just to the west? That fast stream on one side and the river on the other would isolate our plateau from the worst of Mirkwoods denizens. Keep the rest the same but we can now sail the logs down the stream and collect at the lake. Acceptable?

Yuurs. And do away with the falls? I quite like the dramaticism of the falls! Ah well.

The conspirators have made their pact, then scattered out of Khazad-dum, making their way to locations of interrest in numbers dictated by the dangers and the rewards expected

Yes, I like that a lot. Meet ups would likely be once yearly (day after the Dwarven new year?). Gimli wasn't really a loner. In the books at least, he accompanied his father Gloin (one of Bilbo's twelve companions in The Hobbit) to Rivendell to ask Elrond's advice. He joined the Fellowship when he learned of the Ring, pledging his loyalty to the quest and leaving his kinsfolk for the sake of all Middle-Earth.

Well, "finding alternate sources of income" sounded like finding ways to abandon a sinking ship to me (i.e. go into adventuring, hired jobs or something of the kind) : it's sort of hard to fight the economy of an entire region. If you meant find new ways in which the camp could become profitable again, then that's a different story.

I just want to make this clear in my head: you're proposing the logging camp as a starting location, not as a permanent setting for the entire game, right?

 

[Shayuri]

At the risk of adding to the confusion, my take on his point was more that the logging camp seemed to be the only thing that held the various PC's together as a group. He was concerned that if the focus of the game moved off the camp (say, because the logging wasn't going well and thus other means of getting money were required) that the PC's would be more likely to fracture into separate interests than to cleave together and quest around as a team.

 

[Dlsharrock]

Quite. My only concern is that with the logging camp as the unbreakable focus of the game, the group are less likely to quest around at all and the game becomes more akin to a sim, or a soap opera based within the logging camp with duty-based embarkations taking place within reach of the starting location and end-of-scenarios always returning to the camp, rather than the camp being a launching point. It could be argued you could range further afield on certain logging duties, but given the scope of the setting, it seems a bit of a waste. The logic, of course, is sound, and in a regular D&D game I'd consider it a firm basis for a game (albeit a somewhat sedentary one) - but I think in this case freedom to adventure and explore anywhere within what is, let's face it, a really really cool campaign setting are sacrificed for the sake of what seems to be an evolving mini-setting in its own right.

My preference originally was for a starting point with logic enough to bring a group of PCs together that their players could then either explore the rich setting and undertake adventures in the conventional sense, or get involved in the weightier issues of the period (ie, the Witch King of Angmar, the necromancer of Mirkwood, etc) and that would be their choice. Choice here is removed by tying the group to one specific location- if that's what Fred_Binder had in mind at least. I'm sure the point is debatable

 

[Shayuri]

Well, I don't presume to speak for Fred.

But for myself, I agree that a logging camp isn't in itself very adventurous. I think a better reaction to the valid observation that our characters aren't a cohesive lot is to introduce elements that could bind them together...either through backgrounds or in play.

I took his posts to be more of a warning of what would happen if that didn't take place than an advocation of a particular play style.

In the beginning, the logging camp is that binding element. By the time the focus shifts, we need something else though. Some reason to band together, rather than to return to our disparate loyalties (dwarfs, elves, men, etc...).

I'm pretty sure this was your intent all along though, of course. Still, it's not a bad idea to all be on the same page when it comes to ideas for how to do it...short of discussing plot points that should remain unknown.

 

[Dlsharrock]

think a better reaction to the valid observation that our characters aren't a cohesive lot is to introduce elements that could bind them together...either through backgrounds or in play.

I'm not poo-pooing Fred_Binder's ideas, I hope that's not the impression I'm giving! My role as DM requires I keep a certain handhold on the setting and the foundations of the game. I'm merely ensuring I know where we're going with the logging camp idea.

Certainly I agree there needs to be a binding reason for venturing together as a group. And I like the maturity of using logic instead of deux ex machina for this purpose as it holds well with the mature setting and the carefully planned character ideas. On the flip side, we need to ensure the logic doesn't restrain the game or players.

I think I'll wait until Fred responds before I comment further.

 

[renau1g]

I agree with Shay... I like the logging camp for a starting locale, but I'm thinking we need to explore this fantastic setting. I know my char is looking for a way out of his downward spiral and travelling with the one who'd help him (Fred) would be something he'd be interested in.