Ever had that one player who's just on a different wavelength?

[dnddreamer]

I don't understand...

I don't understand what the problem is...

This whole discussion reminds me of an article in Dragon Mag from Gary Gygax's "Up on a Soapbox". In the article Gary states, "Who cares about the social abilities of a game...just game". My response to that qoute and this discussion is: If I'm going to spend any length of time with people that I game with...then I am going to like them personally. Kick them out of the game or move on. D&D is just a game like any other game. And who is going to play another game, like Monopoly or something like that, with someone that upsets them or they dislike? I just don't understand...

 

[Reprisal]

Honestly, Dreamer, I think that it's a lot more complex than that... I think you're assuming that gamers sitting around the table are good friends that hang out together outside of gaming. This is not always the case. I'm stating that simply because while it is noble to assume that gamers should be good friends, they aren't always, and there's nothing innately wrong with that.

People put up with a lot to get the chance to do what they like to do, right?

Still, I don't think our friend here simply dislikes the person, but rather finds the behaviour of that person somewhat rude. I have friends like that, heck, I think that I am that sort of person from time to time, but I still know that I'd rather have that person there then not be there.

I think it was on the RPG.net forums where someone said something akin to this: "Saying that an RPG is just a game, and that people shouldn't take it seriously is somewhat misguided and possibly disruptive. Some people take their enjoyment seriously, and stating that the way they game is somehow wrong can lead to some fiery dialogue." In essence, one should not assume that D&D is objectively and universally "just a game" because that's not necessarily true.

I happen to think that a lot of GMs/DMs take their game very seriously insofar as they have put in hours and hours of work into the campaign. Seeing it torn asunder because some of the players see it as nothing more than "just a silly game" can be quite disheartening. Personally, when I think about something like that, I feel a great desire to want to avoid that sort of player.

Like it's been said, there are many types of RPGers around, and the overall goal is to find a group with compatible players and DMs. While I agree with the sentiment that if you're involved in a group that's simply not on your wavelength, you should move on; at the same time, if a single player is disrupting the collective wavelength, that player should be confronted about it (though probably not accusingly...). The problem is that this is not always an option as there might not be another group out there for that player in that area.

The answers to questions are rarely as simple as we'd like to assume... I'd like to think that if it truly was a sort of problem where kicking the guy out is the answer, then we would not have had this thread pop up. I think ForceUser wishes to salvage the operation, not cut off a piece that may or may not be vital to the whole.

 

[Kichwas]

Ok I'm still on post one so I may edit this or just post again later if 'things' change as I read the thread.


This is a hard spot to get people to roleplay under.

I understand you've got a larger issue and you just used the door and traps as examples.

So I'll come back to the larger issue.

But first the rogue routine. I game with a group of otherwise very good roleplayers. But their 'DnD hats' really come out whenever it's time for a rogue to use any of it's bag of tricks.

It becomes all dice rolls no matter how little sense a situation might be.

These are people who will let rogues hide in a plain unshadowed hallway where there is nothing to hide behind.

Or just let the dice make any old trap go away.

This kind of thinking seems common from what I've encountered; and it's something of a thorn in my side.

I can sympathise with any DM complaining about it, but it doesn't suprise me to encounter the problem either.

On the general roleplay; sometimes there is just nothing you can do. No matter how many 'story-moments' you toss at some players they still just try to hit 'left-A+B-then right' to get the 'secret move'.

For some players it really is a video game without a TV screen and you can either accept it or toss them aside. WIth most groups I've been in; the person usually gets the boot at some point when everybody else realises they're not the only one at the table doing a lot of eyerolling.

That said; assuming you haven't tried; toss the player's PC into some subplots. Put her in a few scenes where she has to make choices and think about different angles on things. Give her a companion NPC to deal with (follower, somebody they rescue, or whatever). Figure out something outside of the game that interests her and toss her some scenes involving it.

If none of those tactics get anywhere, then you've just got to decide weather or not to put up with her or toss her.

 

[Duncan Haldane]

But GMing with this guy around makes me nervous. If he's having fun (generally when we're hacking dungeons, counter to his mocking tone whenever he talks about hacking dungeons), it's good for everyone. When he's not having fun, he taunts, metagames, and tunes out completely. The game is as shallow as it is because it's hard to go beyond "the magic sword gives you plusses", since anything more than that is mocked as flowery prose. When he GMs, he's very tight against the very things he does to others when he plays their games. And when he plays something like Vampire, his character is usually so min/maxed that he's capable of overpowering everyone and making it into his group.

Hmmm, this paragraph reminds me a lot of my flatmate. He's a good GM normally, coming up with great storylines, but he gets frustrated and difficult at times. He will have one way out of a situation planned, and if we can't find that way we are stupid.

As a player he can be worse. When playing in campaigns with him he has a tendancy to belittle others. I have many times reached the point where I just shut up and don't interact, because he will be contrary to anything I suggest. So, rather than suggesting something which may be a good idea, only to have him pounce on it, I keep quiet and let him suggest it.

He also has a tendancy to make sweeping statements about someone else's campaign. For instance, stating "all sewers are filthy, if we go down there we will be covered in muck" - this was on a spacestation in a sci game. I thought "well, they might have robots who clean the sewers. They might have tech which stops the smell, etc." but now the GM is stuck with smelly sewers because this person has declared it is so.

Yes, a GM can overrule that, but it becomes confrontational then.

Ths person also likes to include a lot of romance in the games he plays in. I get uncomfortable with that. It feels to me that he's using the games as an outlet for his sexual desires, and I don't like that.

As for GMing him - I won't do it. He makes me nervous, and I fear that he will tell me that my world is wrong becuase "things don't work that way. I know more about history than you".

In fact, I try to avoid playing in games that he is in, or he GMs. This is awkward at times because our house has a lot of games run here, so one of us must miss out. But it's better than feeling bad about it.

Despite all my comments here, he is one of my best friends. We've been friends for 15 years, and mostly through gaming.

And he is a good roleplayer. At conventions he usually wins a few awards for roleplaying characters across all sorts of Genres and settings.

I think that mostly I need a break from his gaming style for a while, and he probably feels the same about me.

Duncan

 

[Tar Markvar]

For my own defense, the "flowery prose" bit referred more to description than RPing-vs-handwaving scenes. Like:

1) The blade glows softly, and the air around it mists with condensation;

becomes

2) The sword is magical and does frost damage.

I prefer description 1, but I've been beaten with the "flavor text" stick so much that it tends to come out as description 2. Our D&D games have come down to Kill Creature, Hear Catalog of Loot. It's a bit disappointing as a GM, but it can be fun to play a game that's meant to be a game from time to time. This guy isn't going to be charmed by flavor text, because he's so cynical about it. So why describe the scene as "You enter a large room, lit with torches in the center so the corners are in shadows, and you hear ragged breathing from the darkness within," when he'll just zone out and you'll still have to say, "You enter a room 15 by 20 feet, and there are three goblins"?

 

[ForceUser]

That's it exactly, Tar. RPing the little details now and then really add to the ambiance of the world. "The evil wizard casts fireball, roll a Reflex save" is nowhere NEAR as cool as "Snarling, the wizard points his hand at you contemptously. A thin streak of fire spits from his finger, lands between you and your protector, and explodes in an eruption of roaring flame! Make a Reflex save!"

I always try to be cinematically descriptive in combat.

As for my player who's not on my wavelength - not a lot I can do about it. Her husband is a good friend and I definitely don't want to lose him. Unfortunately, they come as a pair. I can't very well kick her out of my game and expect him to stay. Instead, I try (and try, and try...) to come up with ways to get her to roleplay. It's been seven years since we started gaming together; I guess if she hasn't gotten it by now, I should just let it be.

 

[evileeyore]

So far most of this discusion has been roll vs role. How about players who seem to be in their own little world when it comes to rules handed down.

We play in a Space Operatic GURPS Traveller game. At the outset one of the players declared all his clothing was Cloth Armor (a type of ballistic fabric, thinner than kevlar but much thicker than cloth). Yes we said it can be worn as clothing, but is illegal in many starports. What happens? We get to a port where the laws are very strict. My PC is thrown in jail for smuggling weapons, and he can't enter the port at all.

I new the jail time was coming, they caught me with my guns... but I expected it. The other player whined and moaned that because his armor could be worn it should be "nigh" undetectable. Now to waylay any thoughts that he might have simply misunderstood, we had previously been embroiled in a 3 hour discusion about how the armor worked and the DM ruled that it was obvious to the observer that it was armor. It was thick and bulky, and sometimes illegal. The player said okay. Then the other night proceeds to make game hell for over an hour, because he didn't think it should work that way.

The DM even went so far as to say "Go ahead and have a couple of suits of regular clothes just for such an occasion". But he refused. Eventually the game ground to a halt, and broke for the evening.

Now I am not asking for suggestions on how to deal with this. we already know the guy real well (he has been a friend for over 6 years, and a constant gaming companion). Amd normally he is pretty cool to play with, but he does have a stubborn streak a mile wide, and never backs down.

The moral. Sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad. Especially if they are really good friends.

 

[Lela]

ForceUser: Have you tired talking to her husband? Ask what she enjoys about the game, what she hates, and what he thinks you could do to make it better for her. Usually a husband will jump at a chance to make his wife happier, so it should put him in a good mood. Next, listen to what he says, and try to do some of it.

Now, during the same conversation, ask him what he thinks you could do to get her more involved in RPing. Since this fits into the conversation, it should work well. You might even go so far as to ask him to help you.

 

[Mayhawk]

Re: Mish-mash

I've got an "odd man out" in my campaigns. The vast majority of the players want simple, medieval, "Tolkien-esque" campaigns; not this guy. He always wants trans-planar travel or spelljamming or some sort of sci-fi stuff involved; preferably, he likes to have all of the above in one big "mish-mash" setting. Now I, personally, am not against using those elements in some campaigns but using them in every campaign would get a bit tedious for me and the other players (two of them actively detest any hint of "mish-mash", wanting only pure, unadulterated fantasy).

This guy also has trouble keeping player knowledge from interfering with his character's actions. It is often rather annoying to describe a creature only to have its name, stats and weaknesses blurted out (depite the fact the PC probably wouldn't know them).

If anyone has any ideas on how to better fit this guy in without totally handing him the reins of the campaign, I'm all ears.

Here's a rule that I instituted in a campaign I ran this past year called Dead Greyhawk:

Any time a player shouts out such meta-game references as how many hit points he expects an enemy to have, or what armor class it is supposed to have, or what level it is supposed to be because he knows the Monster Manual entries by heart -- or for that matter, uses game term references that shake the suspense of disbelief required of the group to get a sense of the atmosphere, I secretly boost said attributes -- not necessarily in a manner that will directly affect him or her adversely, but rather, when possible, I make it hurt a fellow player. Now, why would I do that, you ask? Players are more vicious than DMs when their characters are harmed or risk death. When a player loses his or her character because one of his peers blurted out something inappropriate at the table, he will give the offending player a much more dreadful tongue-lashing and a much more terrible punishment than I ever could inflict. I announced this at the beginning of the campaign, and not once have I actually had to use it. (Note that I announced this rule precisely because I had a player who had caused a problem like this in a previous campign.)