Excerpt: Economies [merged]

[Meladorn]

Apply a rough rule of thumb

If the total magic item treasure for a level given out is say 1,000gp and your players baulk at selling it at 20%, or 200gp, just adjust the total amount you give them

Instead, give them 400gp worth and let them sell it at 50% for 200gp

In the end, it's all smoke and mirrors

So long as PC's are at around the right wealth for their level, it's one less thing they'll complain about

 

[Lizard]

I probably shouldn't admit this, as it is quite simply badwrongfun, but I never paid one lick of attention to the 3.X wealth per level chart. I just gave PCs what I wanted to give them when I wanted to give it to them.

Mostly it worked out. Mostly.

What? You IGNORED the rules and used your JUDGMENT?

I'm sorry. That's not possible in 3e. Only in 4e is the DM free to do this. In 3e, if you ignored any rules, WOTC ninjas came and killed you. The ability of a DM to be a DM was not present in 3e. The greatest innovation in 4e is the ability to ignore/alter the rules at whim. If you could already do that in 3e...well, what's the point of 4e, then?

Sheesh. Get with the program.

 

[Lizard]

Sort of. The problem is, nation building is a very solo activity. If John wants to build a keep, fine, but, what do the other 4 players do in the meantime. Building a castle without magic takes years. So, does John retire his character in the meantime? After all, it would be a pretty strange thing for John to go off and adventure while his castle is being built.

Last 3e game we were in, our party put a lot of effort into designing/building our group's keep, and sure we adventured while it was going up -- we were paying people to build it, we weren't hammering it ourselves, after all.

 

[Ashardalon]

Was anyone else disappointed this WASN'T about world-building economics, but instead about handing out loot? Sigh...

Yep.

Also, weren't we promised an Archon excerpt for today as well? Hmm, looks like. What happened with that?

----

I checked the magic items that came from D&DXP - there are no 1st level items among them. From the article, it would seem that they don't really exist.

I wonder if there is text on customizing treasure parcels for a campaign, for such things as allowing level-equal magic items to be given out.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Was anyone else disappointed this WASN'T about world-building economics, but instead about handing out loot? Sigh...

I certainly wasn't. To me, D&D economics IS loot. That's all the players will ever care about.

a)Who the hell EVER used random treasure tables? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? All treasure in my games is hand-placed and by strange coincidence fits the player's needs...

I did. I just assumed they'd collect the treasure, go back to town, sell the stuff and buy what they wanted.

 

[Intense_Interest]

But rare, yet desired items tend to have a high resale value. Plus, most ancient swords probably don't wear out for whatever reason, meaning they should behave more like a commodity.

High Resale Value? To whom? A king that could purchase a 5,000,000 GP sword would likely much rather arm his entire army with 500 GP swords. You're going to always scale issues at the highest costs.

Further, a sword is far easier to lose or have stolen than something like a wealth-producing field. Using it implies that there is a great risk involved with it, because anything that needs a 5mil GP sword isn't an easy task, or you could have just used your army with 500GP swords. And if not personal risk, its about finding the right Hero to gift it to so as to defend your land, which could become a sunk cost half the time.

And commodities are a liquid concept. You buy a bunch and you can through economy of scale have a major profit through subdivision where demand entails it. The Ritual Cost of Disenchantment precludes any gain through economy of scale that couldn't be already gained by just purchasing the 500GP swords in the first place. Especially because the Sword will never appreciate in value, because the Supply curve is assumed to be static (it always costs X or more GP for a wizard to make Y sword). It at best serves as an insurance (and not a secure one at that) or as compact coinage.

A stupidly-priced sword for the rich bastard who purchases it must have an immediate demand for it to be worth the set price, and therefore is an easy profit. However Rich Bastards with Immediate Need is not a given in an inefficient Market like a merchant system.

Magic Items are a form of Health Insurance. Selling a lesser form of Health Insurance does not immediately garner an equivalent exchange, especially when PCs are the type that are bleeding on the floor when they are demanding it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok, some thoughts:

You find items which are above your level and thus comparably powerful, but not exactly what you want as a player. +1

You get enough money to craft at least 2 items at your Level, less powerful but customized. +1

Ites are sold for 20% or disenchanted for even less: makes you think twice about getting rid off old items. +1

The story of a place where magical items can be sold at higher prices and new ones be purchased much cheaper can lead to an adventure. +1

In such places a merchants guild can take taxes for importing and selling magical items which may be 20% - 50% of a magical item´s value. (Where magic is abundant, there are powerful people around.)

I alway thought buying a magical item at half price as default was way too much... 50% fo an item that is deemed useless to most adventurers (exactly the reason why you sell it)... 20% is the highest price someone would pay just in case... If players sell an item which could be actually usefull for a village, then nothing in the rules tells you that you may not sell it for 50%.

Actually, you could call it a quest and the difference between 20% and the price you sell it could be your quest reward (maybe you even traded the magical item versus a different item)

 

[Lizard]

Have you compared the price of coffee beans to the price of a latte at Starbucks lately?

Or, heh heh, the price WOTC sells a book to a distributor for and the price your FLGS charges you?

(Not picking on WOTC, the 'chain of markup' is pretty standard for all publshers. And actual profit margins at all angles are razor thin. Only an idiot says "This book has only 5 dollars worth of paper, yet they're charing me 30 dollars, that means the Greedy Capitalist Pigs put 25 dollars cash free and clear in their pockets! They should only charge me 5.01 for the book, otherwise, they're greedy!")

In a D&D world, having a magic item is very risky. Offering it for sale will attract the kind of people who will happily kill you and take it. There are probably rituals (of course) which wizards guilds use to "locate" such items and find out who has them. It's a lot easier to kill some traveling merchant than to go into a dungeon, after all. So the high markup reflects the cost of safety and security.

And, damn, there's a plot hook...

 

[Lizard]

From the Skill Challenges excerpt:

Of course, this could mean:

"No, we will not make buying a mug of ale from the barkeep a skill challenge! Get on with it!"

OTOH, I can definitely see making bargaining with CMOT Dibbler over the cost of the "guaranteed magikal ringes" he has for sale into one.

 

[Steely Dan]

That's not possible in 3e. Only in 4e is the DM free to do this. In 3e, if you ignored any rules, WOTC ninjas came and killed you.

Well, usually they would just rappel from my ceiling and give us a warning.