Excerpt: Economies [merged]

[Jedi_Solo]

To the Pro-4E Magic Item System Crowd:
Can you list an example of a real world good where:
It sells for 5 times as much as the vendor buys it for
The vendor adds no value to the good (either by changing it, or moving it from point A to point B)

First two that come to mind:

Trading in Used Collage Textbooks

Trading in Used Video Games

Even a couple of days later, if you don't have the receipt the price drops by an amazing amount (and let's face it, adventurers won't have the receipt).

I just traded in a bunch of video games a few days ago for store credit. A couple of older games that weren't in high demand (but still for an XBox 360 and in full working condition with case and instructions) I only got a couple of bucks for. There are few games for the 360 that you'll see for under $10 (even used).

And if I had turned them in for cash (instead of store credit) I would have gotten even less for those games.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

How long will it be before UNALIGNED PC's realize that merchants have far more magic items and cash than the monsters?

Very quickly.

But then the merchants will very quickly band together and stay away from the PC Bandits and hire a bunch more mercenaries to act as body guards (using the merchant's best gear) so everything will quickly balance out anyway.

 

[DeusExMachina]

How long will it be before UNALIGNED PC's realize that merchants have far more magic items and cash than the monsters?

Well, that's always been the problem... Of ocurse once it gets out that they killed a merchant, it'll be hard for the pc's to find another merchant even getting close tot hem, let alone that will deal with them fairly. Considering how important merchants must be for the PoL towns, I wouldn't be suprised that the towns would no longer accept the pc's as guests either...

Also, some merchants may just have used up all their cash for cloth or something similar and so now the pc's have 20 bales of cloth on their hands that is worth a lot, but not exactly easy to move...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Traveling around costs money too so unless he has a way to make profit without ripping off adventurers he will be soon very, very poor.

yes, thats why he IS ripping off adventurers... he only pays 20%...

 

[Wormwood]

All I know is, 18 pages before anybody points out the cool Boba Fett tattoo on the rogue chick's arm?

 

[Lizard]

4e "supports" playstyles other than your own? Oh noes!

You rolled a natural one while attacking my point.

A few months ago, one of the biggest "W00tz!" from the pre-4e crowd was "There won't be magic item stores, like there were in 3e!"

Except, of course, there weren't any in 3e, unless the DM wanted there to be. There were prices for magic items, and notes that in major cities, you might be able to find items for sale. What this meant, in actual play, was up to the DM. There might be stores. There might be ex-adventurers looking to unload some loot. There might a strange item here and there in the bazaar. Etc.

But "In 4e there won't be any magic stores! Yay!" was the joyous cry from the multitudes.

Now, what do we have in 4e?

Prices for magic items. And notes in the flavor text you might be able to find items for sale.

In other words -- exactly the same as in 3e. Whether there are stores or not is up to the DM. The only major difference is that, in 3e, the DM had community wealth guidelines, and, in 4e, there's a network of teleporting magic item merchants who show up in whatever town the PCs are in.

 

[med stud]

How long will it be before UNALIGNED PC's realize that merchants have far more magic items and cash than the monsters?

Congratulations! You are now the owner of ten bales of silk, two barrels of wine and a sack of spices .

Nothing but guards are stopping the PCs from becoming brigands, it's up to the DM what a merchant will carry.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

How about reminding them they are ADVENTURERS and not shopkeepers? If they want to do that why don't you all just play monopoly or Acquire instead of D&D?

sorry, sometimes badwrongfun is just the necessary response.

no need... it can become a very fun campaign... they will soon find out that its need a heavy investment t start such a trading merchant shop... and they will have to deal with thieves, bandids and much worse... adventurers...

 

[WhatGravitas]

Balance and other metagame considerations now completely trump all other considerations.

How is this different from 3E? :-\

Wait, in 4E - right in the article - there's a way how to exclude magic items from the economy, meaning that you can dole out gold as you wish, fitting the story instead of the metagame conceits.

Magic items need to be regulated, as long as they carry power (character-wise), otherwise the game can easily go haywire. But unlike the last edition, it's possible to decouple magic items from the rest of the economy easily.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Dragonblade]

Yeah, I am very impressed with how novice friendly this is (and commented as such in another board I frequent).

One thing learned from figuring out the cost chart... you probably get +1 improvements to magic weapons/armor/etc on increments of 5... ie, +1 at 1-5, +2 at 6-10, +3 at 11-15, etc. Of course, your magic items are higher than your level usually so it's possible you end up with items over level 30, but if not that puts a +6 sword/armor as your cap in epic levels.

Which seems low based on the rest of the math (like for monsters), so there's probably something I'm missing. 1/2 Level + 1/5 Item doesn't come close enough to the +1 / Level we're seeing on scaling things... though I suppose you might also get at least +1/8 ability score increase, and that just leaves 7/40 to get through feats, paths, and power bonuses.

Hmmhmm. I guess that's dealable.

I predict +1 bonus increments for items every 3 levels. You should have +10 items by level 30.