Excerpt: Economies [merged]

[Voss]

That's stupid. Not the same at all. Even numbers are even numbers. It is a term that means evenly divisible by two. It does not mean, counting by two's only. So if you gain stat increases at 4/8/12/16/20, those are still even numbers. The focus of the sentence wasn't the small list of things, but that you gain one set of increases on odd and one set of increases on even. The new attack powers on odd, comes on a schedule, too. Dailies are 5/9/15 for example. You gain things other than attack powers on even levels. These INCLUDE those mentioned in the list in the excerpt, but nothing implies that everything on that list happens every single even numbered level. Like I said, you are reading too much into a simple statement.

Sorry if trying to clarify my point makes you angry.
But you say it yourself here: one set (which includes daily and encounter but does not specify when exactly you get either) of increases on odd levels, and one set of increases on even levels. Ability scores increases are presented as part of that set. The wording and structure of the sentence provide the implication.

A *clear* statement would be: you gain attack powers on odd levels, global increases and feats at even levels, and ability score increases at some even levels.

You also gain utility powers on even numbered levels, but I guess since they didn't mention those in that list, they must have stripped utility powers from the game, that one sentence being an all-encompassing declaration of gameplay and all. Incidentally, you don't gain utility powers at EVERY even numbered level either (2/6/10/12/16...).

And since they weren't included in the set presented, there isn't any implication that you get them every even level. So there isn't any conflict.


@And thank you, AZRogue, for providing some evidence as a counter argument for the imprecision in this article.

 

[AZRogue]

@And thank you, AZRogue, for providing some evidence as a counter argument for the imprecision in this article.

No problem, amigo. A'koss linked it to me earlier. I thought the exact same thing you did when I read the current article. It's not a difficult conclusion to reach, just not the only interpretation. I think the way they structured that sentence heavily implies something they didn't intend to imply.

 

[jackston2]

The whole point of everything is that gold no longer has to be micromanaged in order to maintain fighting competence.

You can buy an enchanted manor, a pirate ship, an exotic pet, host a birthday festival, whatever.

 

[Thasmodious]

Sorry if trying to clarify my point makes you angry.

I'm not angry, your example was just retarded.

Admin here. Don't post in this thread any longer; if you can't avoid being rude, you shouldn't be posting.

But you say it yourself here: one set (which includes daily and encounter but does not specify when exactly you get either) of increases on odd levels, and one set of increases on even levels. Ability scores increases are presented as part of that set. The wording and structure of the sentence provide the implication.

No, you are providing the implication. It's not there in the sentence or the term. Even numbers does not mean counting by two, it means numbers evenly divisible by two. If I count by 4s, 8s, 100s, I am still counting in even numbers. You made an incorrect implication and now feel honor bound, for some inexplicable reason, to defend it for pages, rather than admit you simply made a mistake. That's hardly unusual on the internet, to be sure. And not something I feel the need to waste any more time on trying to explain how language and terminology works to someone who is just being stubborn. So, in the spirit of internet fair use, I will just say: lrn2read n00b, and move on with my day.

 

[AZRogue]

The new magic item selling and buying guidelines remind me of the Wish spell:

The players try to circumvent the guidelines and the DM should twist their efforts around and make the effort so much trouble that they're unlikely to attempt it casually ever again. If they are particularly smart about things and very careful you may feel a momentary flash of empathy and let them be rewarded. Later on you just have to decide how much, if at all, you take back to compensate for giving in to your baser instincts.

 

[Ktulu]

I'm guessing you didn't spend your college years with an article from Different Worlds magazine which detailed acreage needed for population support, plotting out precisely how big the farmlands around each city in your campaign needed to be...

Can't say I did. I was out getting laid.


I think the economy section looks pretty much as I suspected it would. Not too different from other games, just simplified (got rid of all the pointless tables that I never used anyway..Woo! more pages for useful stuff!).

As to the 20%, I recently sold a bunch of videogames to a store. No scratches, and a couple were from the 360. Four games garnered me $44.67...Or, about %20 of what I paid for them. I was able to get MarioKart Wii for only $10 of my own cash.

Seems to me the system works fine in the real world, and I don't see how it wouldn't work in D&D.

Ktulu

 

[Lizard]

Wait, Lizard wrote this? Lizard? You're fired. We need a new person to be Lizard. You've spent countless pages expounding a D&D philosophy that has made it very clear that you'd rather stab yourself in the eye with a pen than accept a gameworld which changes based on the story needs of the player characters. You don't get to admit that you've been playing that way all along. Not if you don't want to give up your Lizard title to someone else.

No, I've spent countless pages expouding on the idea that the rules of the world are the same whether the PCs are there or not...not that being a DM means opening the Big Book Of Random Tables and rolling things for the players, which is a nice straw man of my position.

My question when I'm setting up a story or situation or horde is "Is this *possible*, according to the rules?". If the rules say "A 20th level fighter at full health cannot die from falling from his horse" (to use an example in a thread over on rpg.net), then I'm not going to start an adventure with that happening to an NPC -- unless there's some bizaare circumstance involved (massive poison, perhaps -- or he wasn't at full health, he was down to his last hit point for some reason) which the PCs must then figure out.

Things usually do change according to the story needs of the PCs, in the context of the rules. If someone takes Leadership, cohorts of the proper level appear. What DOESN'T happen is that the Commoner-1 barmaid becomes a Rogue-7 overnight just because the PC needed a cohort.

 

[Lizard]

I bet he also got to kiss girls in college

Should I note I did most of this stuff while hanging out at my girlfriend's apartment on weekends? She also had notebooks filled with detailed maps of worlds she built...

Ah, the SCA. Greatest enemy of virginity EVAR.

 

[Lizard]

Ehrm, it's illiquid, as in, not liquid. Not illithid, as in, ctulhu-rip-offs.

If you look up, way up, way way waaaay up, you can see something.

It's the joke.

Flying overhead.

Apparently, "Detect Humor" is a ritual in 4e, 'cause it sure ain't an at-will power 'round these parts...

 

[Spatula]

One of the biggest assumptions people are making on this thread is that PCs will WANT to sell low level items just because they've upgraded to better ones.

When I was playing my 13th level Wizard, I was festooned with +1 Orbs, Wands, and Staves even though I had a +3 Staff of the Warmage. Those little trinkets had value over and above their +1 to hit and damage.

What value is that?

Likewise, a Rogue will want to keep his humble +1 dagger even though he's now sporting a +2 Flaming Rapier.

Why will he want to keep it?

Selling magical items just won't be a common occurance and adventurers will want to keep their stuff. Even if everyone in the party is already using their neck slot and nobody can use another +2 amulet of protection, there is little incentive to sell the item and quite a lot to do other things with it...and there are indeed other things you can do with it.

...such as?