Excerpt: Economies [merged]

That's a good question.

The money value is easy to fix.

For the magic items, my kludge would be to add or subtract a level-plus-2 item for groups of 6 or 4.
 

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TwinBahamut said:
The only effect of the "you sell items at 1/5 value and buy them at 6/5 or 7/5 value" rule is that it encourages players to try to become merchants themselves. It means that players should go out and try to find other people to sell magic items at full value to, and that they are rewarded for doing so.

In other words, you would expect the 1/5-7/5 rule to hold up to a simulation where the roles of the players and NPCs change around? That's a concept, AFAICT, that I've heard many times won't be valid in 4E. The players in your hypothetical example will fail at being merchants for the same reason that the 1/5-7/5 thing works - because DM fiat will absolutely trump any other rule or system.

The players will only be able to become merchants if the DMs vision of the "story" will allow this. Otherwise, a series of implausible events will occur to cause them to change their minds (at best). In fact, if they aren't careful, the merchant PCs might wake up and find that they've turned into minions.
 

keterys said:
Someone of 2nd level or higher can't die from falling off a horse in 3.x, but I don't think that would stop me from having it happen. The rules also don't model losing fingers, arms, eyes, legs, etc... but it does happen.

Characters of up to 5th level can die from falling off a horse. They just need really horrific roles for hp and their Con scores.
 

drjones said:
A book defining a game that models a 'real' world in a 'real' universe would be longer than anyone here could ever read in their lifetime.

At least until we solve the Theory of Everything, then it should fit on an index card that says:
[sblock]"The DM's always right." ;)[/sblock]
 

Protagonist said:
Great, now 4E even has it's own travelling salesman problem.
What's next? Waiting for the encumbrance rules to find the perfect mix of items to fill a bag of holding?

NP = Platinum?
 

Crosswind said:
To the Pro-4E Magic Item System Crowd:

Can you list an example of a real world good where:
It sells for 5 times as much as the vendor buys it for
The vendor adds no value to the good (either by changing it, or moving it from point A to point B)

I can't. And it's messing with my chi. Spare me the chorus of "Can you name a real world good that SHOOTS FIREBALLS!", too. =)
-Cross

Coffee and most other processed beverages. Frappachinos specifically. The cost to create a packaged Frappachino is about 7 times less than its production cost. Your basic soda only costs about one forth of its sale price.

And the Bottler doesn't make it and therefore "adds value". He just bottles it. Your local coca cola is shipped in bulk and then packaged in a factory close to where you live. Unless you want to argue that packaging adds value (which it doesn't)
 
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After reading the first 15 pages, I think I have a major building block for my first 4e campaign. Comments would be appreciated!


Cool Name Merchant Guild

HISTORY

Founded X years prior by a famous adventuring party who ruthlessly forced towns and merchants in the area to join and obey.

"Merchant City" is a large city at the crossroads between X larger points of light. This city is where Merchants trade amongst themselves. Only those wearing the Guild Signet ring can enter the main area of the city (think Flea Market/Swap Meet).


MEMBERSHIP

Several Levels of Membership
Liscenses required to sell different kinds of goods.
Certified Appraiser Training/Test
Yearly Dues
Must pay 40% of selling price to Guild.
Strict rules for membership... need more thought on what they could be.
Magical Signet Ring - Only responds to assigned Guild Member. (no killing Merchant and stealing ring to gain access to "Merchant City"

RULES

Only one Merchant of a specific good per route.
Can purchase goods from non-Merchants at 20% of appraised value.
All goods sold are at 140% of retail value (determined by the Guild(DMG))
Non-Merchant Guild members can set up permanent shops, but no item being sold to non-guild members can be magical or over a value of X gp.
Merchant Guild Members are not allowed to set up permanent locations.
Anyone selling an item over X gp to a Merchant is required to complete a MG bill of sale which includes personal details of the seller.

To summarize, if you find an item worth of X gp or is magical, it can legally only be sold to a Merchant Guild member who is only going to pay you about 20% of its retail value (or roughly 14% of the actually price to buy it from a Merchant given the 140% selling price).

To purchase a magical item or an item worth of X gp you must find the ONLY merchant who is liscensed to sell those types of items on that specific route. Even then, it's not guaranteed they'll have the item, although given enough time they could get the item the next time they trade at "Merchant City."

LIFE

Merchants are often attacked in between destinations. When attacked by humans or other advanced species, the Merchants themselves are often NOT harmed. To do so could mean death by a Guild Hit Squad/Assassin. Monsters are also prevalent and WILL kill the Merchant if given the chance. The treasure taken, however, varies, as they only take what may interest them (if anything). Those hired by Merchants for protection who let their employer die often can't find work. It's not uncommon to come across a wagon in the road that has been attacked with treasure left behind. If a Merchant comes across such a find, they turn the goods in at the "Merchant City" and receive a small percentage of the value. Another small portion is paid to the living family of the dead Merchant. The rest is kept by the Guild.

RUMORS

The Merchant Guild Council is actually in league with various criminal organizations and/or monsterous tribes. The threat of attack and danger associated with the trade of Magical items keeps prices high, thus keeping their 40% cut high. (And the lure of making riches trading).

The Merchant Guild is responsible for attacks on some of its own members. Either members who are rumored to be breaking rules, or those who get too successful/powerful and aren't favored by the council.

ADVENTURING HOOK

A merchant arrives in town seeking members to replace his previous crew. He needs people of special talents (Healing, Identifying, Scouting, Tracking, Muscle).
 

robertliguori said:
Characters of up to 5th level can die from falling off a horse. They just need really horrific roles for hp and their Con scores.

Oh, for the love of all that's holy! Not this AGAIN!!

Look, I can sum up the next 20 pages of discussion on this topic:

Side A Argument 1) The game rules should be used as the model for all events that happen in the world. Anything other than that kills my suspension of disbelief.

Side B Rebuttal) That's absurd! D&D has no rules to cover all sorts of events that can and do occur in the real world. If I want something to happen, it can happen.

Side A Rebuttal) If you want something to happen that isn't possible by the rules, you should insert some houserules that allow for it. Anything else is DM fiat/railroading.

Side B Counter-rebuttal) It's not railroading if it doesn't apply to PCs. You can't, by definition, railroad an NPC. Some events are either so improbable, or things you just don't want to have happen to PCs. NPCs don't have that kind of plot protection. Ergo, a houserule for something that will never affect PCs is adding needless complexity.

Side A) NPCs should be treated the same as PCs! (Go back to Argument 1 - Repeat Ad Nauseum).

Just agree to disagree folks. This argument will do nothing but go in circles.
 



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