Excerpt: skill challenges

[Stalker0]

"No-one minds a railroad if it leads to awesome town" - SteveD

"The problem is choice." - The Matrix

 

[Spatula]

That's exactly the issue we're pointing at. This example leaves two real options: bluff and diplomacy, and both of these are a subset of one option (get the Duke to trust you). The stated goal is to get the NPC to trust the PCs, but if the PCs are using intimidation in the first place they obviously have a different goal in mind. Therefore, the direction of this example is self-defeating.

Then they fail the objective, which was to secure the Duke's trust, and the adventure continues. Still not a railroad.

The DM makes it clear the PCs should try to earn the Duke's trust. The PCs decide to do something different. There's nothing wrong with that! You can apply that contrarian spirit to any proposed skill challenge. That doesn't make the challenge self-defeating.

Challenge: Escape the city guards!
Players: Fleeing is for cowards! We fight the guards instead.

Challenge: Find the hidden jungle temple!
Players: We rig up a hot air balloon and spot it from the air instead of going through the jungle.

Challenge: Get something of value from the Duke!
Players: We kill the Duke and take over his fiefdom. Now all his assets are ours!

 

[Dice4Hire]

Unfortunately this excerpt did not really answer all my questions about the skill challenge system. I like the idea of the characters being free to sue skills more freely, but not to a ridiculous extent where the character finds a way to use his acrobatics in every single encounter. But still there should be some freedom

Also I think there should be more choice to make an easy, medium or hard roll. If I'm great at Diplomacy, I want to go got the High roll for more successes.

Also, does the party get to roll the same skill more than once an encounter. I sure hope not.

Or even put a limit on how many successes or failures once character can generate, like half?

I still have way too many questions.

 

[Jasperak]

I cannot read 21 pages of stuff, so my only questions are:

Is this system really saying that I don't have to role-play anymore if I don't want to? Can I really say to my wanna-be-thespian DM, nah I don't feel like roleplaying anymore; show me the loot? Here are my last 8 d20 rolls in order. I rolled them while you were reciting the monologue of Anthiphunicles. Do I win the encounter?

 

[Rechan]

Unfortunately this excerpt did not really answer all my questions about the skill challenge system.

I believe that every excerpt we have seen does not answer all the questions. That's why it's an excerpt, and not a full discloser.

 

[AllisterH]

Gee, we've devolved into a thread about what the intimidate skill means.

Intimidate refers to the skill of getting people who do not like you and who do not agree with you to do what you want them to do anyway.

.

Well, a 21 page thread always is a good thing...That said, that's not Intimidate in either SAGA or 3E at ALL. If you were using it like that, that's not RAW.

Intimidate

What you're referring to is still considered under Diplomacy (Diplomacy works on people that don't like you either)

And again, the skill challenge explicitly says "Gain the trust of the Duke". If you were to try to use it in 3.5, the effect would be that about 10 minutes after you leave, the Duke would be ACTIVELY working against you since he would shift from Neutral towards you to Unfriendly...

Using Intimidate in such a scenario in 3.5 is automatic failure and so it should be in 4E.

 

[Mort_Q]

Is this system really saying that I don't have to role-play anymore if I don't want to?

No.

Can I really say to my wanna-be-thespian DM, nah I don't feel like roleplaying anymore; show me the loot? Here are my last 8 d20 rolls in order. I rolled them while you were reciting the monologue of Anthiphunicles. Do I win the encounter?

You can if you want, but he'll I'd say no.

 

[Rechan]

Is this system really saying that I don't have to role-play anymore if I don't want to? Can I really say to my wanna-be-thespian DM, nah I don't feel like roleplaying anymore; show me the loot? Here are my last 8 d20 rolls in order. I rolled them while you were reciting the monologue of Anthiphunicles. Do I win the encounter?

No more than roleplaying in a fight scene by saying, "While you were describing the monster, I rolled my next ten attacks. Here are the numbers. Here are my defenses and HP. Did I win the encounter?"

 

[small pumpkin man]

I cannot read 21 pages of stuff, so my only questions are:

Is this system really saying that I don't have to role-play anymore if I don't want to? Can I really say to my wanna-be-thespian DM, nah I don't feel like roleplaying anymore; show me the loot? Here are my last 8 d20 rolls in order. I rolled them while you were reciting the monologue of Anthiphunicles. Do I win the encounter?

Short answer, no.

3.x Diplomacy was "I get 57, Thor is now my butt-monkey!". If you Look at the example there are 3-4 "pre-established" rolls, and it requires 8 to "beat" it, for the other 5, you have to actually explain to the DM what you are doing, and why it will help.

 

[The Shadow]

That's exactly the issue we're pointing at. This example leaves two real options: bluff and diplomacy, and both of these are a subset of one option (get the Duke to trust you). The stated goal is to get the NPC to trust the PCs, but if the PCs are using intimidation in the first place they obviously have a different goal in mind. Therefore, the direction of this example is self-defeating.

Why are you assuming this is the only skill challenge on the table? The GM could easily have several for different scenarios:

1) The PC's might try to ask the Duke for help. Whip up Skill Challenge A for that. I already know they're in a position of weakness with respect to the Duke, so Intimidation is Right Out - they need to win his trust. (A novice DM, or an experienced one in a rush, might just grab the Negotiation template straight out of the DMG rather than making one up in detail. That one is generic, and so makes certain assumptions about the Duke that a DM might well want to change in his own game.)

2) They might try to find the bad guy's secret entrance on their own and sneak their way in, reasoning that having lots of troops with them would only draw attention. I'll use Skill Challenge B for that.

3) They might try to disguise themselves as soldiers of the bad guy. Here's Skill Challenge C for that...

And so on. I think peoiple are reading way too much into this one simple example.