Exotic Weapon - Greatscythe

[Nazhkandrias]

I'll bet that somebody has thought of this before, but I was unable to find it, so I figured that I might as well suggest it. The scythe is well-loved by fans of criticals, tripping, necromancy, and coolness, but it's still a martial weapon with sub-par damage for a two-handed weapon. For somebody willing to toss in a feat for Proficiency, I thought that this might be a cool idea for those who really want to cut a bloody swathe through their foes...

Name - Greatscythe
Weapon Type - 2-Handed Exotic Weapon
Damage - 1d10
Critical - 20/x4
Damage Type - P or S
Cost - 70 gp
Weapon Size - Large Object
Weight - 15 lbs
Hardness/Hit Points - 5/15
Special Qualities - Trip, Shared Focus (scythe)

Naturally, all values are for a weapon designed for a Medium character. The basic idea of this is a considerably larger scythe head, being a considerably wider and a good bit longer, with a much sturdier and thicker haft for support. The head will be very firmly mounted, and the weapon counts as exotic for two reasons -

1. It's just too powerful to be a martial weapon; it would completely overshadow the regular scythe.
2. The large amount of momentum built up by the scythe's swing can be a little unbalancing. The blade on the end is considerably larger and heavier than that of a normal scythe, so it is easier to lose balance. Hence, a non-proficient user will have a tough time swinging this thing accurately.

Naturally, it's two-handed and capable of tripping, just like its younger brother. Also like the smaller scythe, it boasts a x4 critical (it's a freaking scythe, it hurts), choice of piercing or slashing damage, and the hardness of your average hafted weapon. Hit points are increased due to larger size. Damage is boosted by a bit, but not by a full size category. 2d6 and 20/x4 critical is overpowered, even for an exotic weapon. Hence, I went with 1d10. Powerful, but not overwhelmingly so for a two-handed weapon.

This is a good way for a Medium creature to get a good critical paired with good damage, albeit at the cost of a shield (or second weapon) and a feat. Medium creatures can't use a scythe for a Large creature anyway, and this weapon allows something similar, yet not overpowering.

The questions I have are these - is weight and price appropriate? How does it seem balance-wise? And also, due to the nature of this weapon, should I include a small bonus for users with Cleave or Power Attack? Take this trait from the Longaxe in Complete Adventurer - "A proficient user with Power Attack that shifts at least 3 points to damage can use the Longaxe as Reach 10’ for the whole round." Would something like that be appropriate here, due to the nature of such a weapon? Also, any other suggestions (or links to pages that have already designed a similar weapon) are welcomed.

 

[Stalker0]

On average, you are only gaining .5 points of damage (2d4 = 5, 1d10 = 5.5) and your losing consistency. That's not worth a feat.

 

[Machiavelli]

Definitely don't do the 10' Reach thing. I'm not sure how to use a scythe in combat, but I'm willing to bet it's alot closer to the body, utilizing a sweaping motion of the upper body, developing power from the hips. I can't picture a scythe being used, even with a super-long haft, at 7-10' from the target.

On the other hand, I think the damage upgrade isn't worth a feat. Most of the PHB exotic weapons suffer the same deficiency. As a different kind of bonus, you could create a Weapon Style feat, like those in Complete Warrior, specific to this weapon. That would make selecting the greatscythe a choice for flavor, but with a fun ability attached.

Reaper's Harvest (STYLE)
Cleave, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greatscythe), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (greatscythe)
As a full-round action wielding the greatscythe, you may make a single trip attack attack against each adjacent target. You are still allowed to make an extra attack on each successful trip, as per the Improved Trip feat.

There's my suggestion: like Whirlwind Attack for a trip monkey, but utilizing a different feat chain. It's definitely very powerful, as a nice goal for the greatscythe enthusiast to work toward. That's Int 13 and probably 6 feats needed, or a class like Monk(6) that provides Improved Trip without Combat Expertise as a prerequisite.

If you want more of a necromantic instant-kill feel, or otherwise want to NOT concentrate on tripping, the style feat may instead provide a means for guarenteeing a critical against a crit-able creature, at some sort of serious cost and/or in a specific situation. Have fun!

 

[Nifft]

On average, you are only gaining .5 points of damage (2d4 = 5, 1d10 = 5.5) and your losing consistency. That's not worth a feat.

Agree. 2d6 damage would be worth it, maybe.

-- N

 

[Tetsubo]

Not to rain on your parade... but there isn't anyway that you can even remotely realistically use a scythe in combat. They take up HUGE amounts of room to use. They are designed to chop grain stalks at ground level. Anyone with even the slightest amount of martial training would laugh at someone trying to attack them with a scythe. I'm sure that you could rather easily disarm a scythe user with your bare hands. The fact that the scythe was included in the game is more proof that the writers have no weapon reference books and have never actually held a weapon or any tools...

But if you must include this weapon in your game, the 2d6 suggestion is good...

 

[Choranzanus]

Not to rain on your parade... but there isn't anyway that you can even remotely realistically use a scythe in combat. They take up HUGE amounts of room to use. They are designed to chop grain stalks at ground level. Anyone with even the slightest amount of martial training would laugh at someone trying to attack them with a scythe. I'm sure that you could rather easily disarm a scythe user with your bare hands. The fact that the scythe was included in the game is more proof that the writers have no weapon reference books and have never actually held a weapon or any tools...

But if you must include this weapon in your game, the 2d6 suggestion is good...

It is true that scythe, while it can be dangerous, is hardly a weapon. In fact there exist a weapon called fauchard, which is really just a straightened scythe (and faucard is a scythe in french). This should tell you something. I don't think I would like to parry a scythe with my bare hands, but it is definitely unwieldy. Scythe should be an exotic weapon, as it belongs to the category:"My players would laugh at me, if my villains wore this as weapon" - at least for me , anyway.

If you like those skeletons with style, I would increase the damage to 2d6 too...

 

[D.Shaffer]

Name - Greatscythe
Weapon Type - 2-Handed Exotic Weapon
Damage - 1d10
Critical - 20/x4
Damage Type - P or S

Typically, exotic weapons are simply martial weapons with a stat 'improved' by one step. (And martial weapons are simple weapons, likewise a 'step' improved') With that in mind...I'd just increase the damage a step from the 1d6/2d4 of the regular scythe to the next 'step' in damage and make it 2d4/2d6.

 

[Nazhkandrias]

On average, you are only gaining .5 points of damage (2d4 = 5, 1d10 = 5.5) and your losing consistency. That's not worth a feat.

Now that I consider that, yes. When picking between high or low power for a homebrew item, I tend to start with low, to encourage more suggestions for improvement and less cries for nerfing. I think that I will boost this up to 2d6, which from what I've gathered, balances the weapon nicely.

Reaper's Harvest (STYLE)
Cleave, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greatscythe), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (greatscythe)
As a full-round action wielding the greatscythe, you may make a single trip attack attack against each adjacent target. You are still allowed to make an extra attack on each successful trip, as per the Improved Trip feat.

OK, I like that. The only good points to the scythe is it's high critical and ability to trip. And insane coolness. This complements that nicely! Very powerful, and if this required any less feats, it would probably be WAY overpowered. I like the concept and the ability though, but getting a DM to approve it depends on their opinions of trip monkeys, I guess. But at a 5-feat requirement only suitable for a dedicated tripper, it seems fair enough. However, I would add in something about only being able to make ONE extra attack against your opponents at your highest base attack bonus. Otherwise, a high-level fighter could conceivably trip eight enemies and make four attacks against each. Tripping eight enemies is great, and one extra attack is more than enough, let alone four.

It is true that scythe, while it can be dangerous, is hardly a weapon. In fact there exist a weapon called fauchard, which is really just a straightened scythe (and faucard is a scythe in french). This should tell you something. I don't think I would like to parry a scythe with my bare hands, but it is definitely unwieldy. Scythe should be an exotic weapon, as it belongs to the category:"My players would laugh at me, if my villains wore this as weapon" - at least for me , anyway.

I am familiar with the fauchard, along with its combat record. Not good. As for the scythe's combat ability, I agree, it wouldn't be my first choice of weapon, and if I had made this game, I would most likely tone it down a bit (maybe put in a drawback to AC or attack rolls) and categorize it as a simple weapon (something more likely to be used by a peasant). But I didn't, and we can only assume (and hope) that the picture of the scythe in the PH is not actually what people are using. That thing IS pretty laughable, I'll admit. But Exotic Weapon Proficiency (and, to a degree, Martial Weapon Proficiency) assumes heavy training with a particular type of weapon, so it is assumed that SOMEHOW, the character can make effective use of it in combat.

As for somebody effectively using a scythe in combat in real life, not likely, I agree. But then again, I doubt many use a spiked chain. Wait, never mind, bad example... But D&D assumes exceptional individuals. If a player picks a weapon, they usually stick with that particular variety. It can be assumed that they've spent years (either during or before an adventure) practicing with it. But, on to real life - a single strike from a scythe is not very dangerous, true. The scythe is topheavy, it can throw someone off balance, but it builds up incredible momentum and leverage through this, delivering insane amounts of force. If someone were to use this to their advantage (lots of spinning maneuvers, plenty of follow through), then it might be a decent weapon. If someone could direct the blade of that thing accurately, then a HEAVILY modified scythe, when combined with momentum and a mastery of the weapon, could serve as a weapon.

I posted something like this in another thread, it's how I visualize combat with a scythe. "You make a sweeping slash at their legs, and with a yank and a twist, you take out their legs from under them flip them over. With the inertia from your strike, you continue your swing, raising your scythe as you complete a full turn and then, bringing the weapon over your head and ending your spin, slam the scythe directly through their chestplate. As they feebly try to stand up, you make a mighty downward stroke, pinning them to the ground by their head and ensuring that they won't ever get up." Stylized combat, to be sure, but it's how I would describe it. That would be a trip, followed by a piercing attack from Improved Trip, followed by a piercing attack as an AoO when the foe stands up. Difficult, yes, but plausible for a Dextrous or downright powerful character.

 

[Stalker0]

Its a fantasy game, weapons aren't supposed to be realistic. If it was, no one would ever use a sword against heavy armor, or dragonscales for sure. You would use a spear, which would break fairly frequently. You couldn't shoot a bow a football field away accurately at all, etc etc.

Just...let it go

 

[Nazhkandrias]

Just...let it go

Point taken, I guess... coolness is enough, I suppose. A spiked chain isn't very realistic (at least not how they portray it); in fact, in real life, it's pretty much just like stabbing yourself in the head, albeit in a considerably more dramatic fashion. But it's still cool, and it's still a good weapon.

But still, it can be fun to think about these things sometimes. Admit it, being able to use a massive scythe or a huge spiked chain in real life would be pretty cool. I suppose that's why we take up RPGs!