exp for making magicals.....?

[Sir ThornCrest]

A master sword maker spends 3 weeks folding and forming a sword to what he considers perfection. It cost him no experience to make it, in fact he will earn X amount. A alchemist can make a poison with like results as the sword maker. As soon as magic is put into the potion/ item / whatever, the Wizard will lose exp points, the amount-pending the level of magic "installed".....So he gains 0 exp points for the use of his craft? I assume its a little of him he is putting in there, and they need to limit the amount of magicals he can kick out, otherwise your campaign will be flooded with magical items within a few months and the party will absoluterly lay to waist all in their path!.....But what about the alchemist? Thats his job. He cant effectively adventure, afterall transporting a lab may be prove difficult! So he will make his tonics and potions and brews and will never get passed first level for doing so.....he is forever doomed to 1st level. Because after he gets enough exp points to make a magic potion, whamo there gone! The potion will sell for X amount of coin...And he is stuck at 1st level...........HELP!!!! Doesnt this seem insane? And to counter this problem you may say he earns X amount of exp points for making a potion...well then how much does he earn?
How many exp points do you earn for making wonderous items? a magic sword, wand?staff?ring?

Sir ThornCrest
(ftr/pal) my favorite pc Ive ever played, 27 ac, over 100 h pts, a +4 lawful & good aligned shield of sundering. I would absolutely destroy opponents weapons..aaaahh the memories...

 

[kenobi65]

Ah, but what an alchemist "does" are actually two different things. The first, creating alchemical items -- alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bags, etc. -- does not cost him any XP. It's the second -- making potions -- that costs XP. Since the Brew Potion feat has a prerequisite of "caster level 3rd", your example alchemist certainly wouldn't be stuck forever at 1st level. (He may be stuck forever at 3rd level, but that's another story...)

 

[Saeviomagy]

If nothing ever happens to your alchemist, he will forever stay at whatever level he is at.

Full stop.

However, it's probably prudent to assume that general members of the population, even in times of peace and order, will have at least 1 encounter per year equivalent to an EL of 1. Did they survive a mugging in an alleyway by a 1st level warrior? EL ~1. Did they negotiate a complex contract with a 3rd level expert negotiator? EL ~1, half XP because there's no threat of death. Was there a flood, storm, fire or other natural disaster?

XP, XP, XP, XP.

Basically every time they get the ingredients for a potion, that's likely to give them enough XP to make the potion itself.

 

[aco175]

It seems that they could make XP be creating mundane items and smaller potions that are not magical. Most people that they meet would not be looking to buy a potion of jumping, but they would need things to help them sleep, stay awake, kill weeds, clean copper, just about anything like that.

 

[Tonguez]

1 XP point per day 365 per year

 

[Ibram]

Its always been my opinion that just because a character is sitting in a lab doesnt mean that they are not gaining XP.

Lets take our Alchemist friend here. While he may not be out killing the Goblin King he is working to perfect his art, and developing new formulas. He is also dealing with customers and haggling with merchants or adventurers to get new components. In the end he will not level as fast as someone who adventures constantly, but he can still progress.

 

[ZSutherland]

I generally agree and apply that agreement to thinking it's a bit ridiculous that PC casters lose xp for engaging in behaviour that probably deepens their understanding of magic and helps the members of their party who didn't lose such xp. As a thought, you might convert xp costs to additional gold gosts equal to 5 gp per 1 xp required, which goes along the item creation rules for items that require a spell with an xp component.

Z

 

[Saeviomagy]

I generally agree and apply that agreement to thinking it's a bit ridiculous that PC casters lose xp for engaging in behaviour that probably deepens their understanding of magic and helps the members of their party who didn't lose such xp. As a thought, you might convert xp costs to additional gold gosts equal to 5 gp per 1 xp required, which goes along the item creation rules for items that require a spell with an xp component.

Z

The POINT of it is that creating an item makes your character more powerful than simply spending the cash, and therefore it should not be something that goes... ahem... unpunished.

It works just fine for the PC's - generally a PC spellcaster who generates items will be less than a level behind his fellows, as long as he's not excessive, and he'll never be more than a level behind.

However it doesn't work so well for NPCs who don't get XP at the same rate, but might craft items nonetheless.

 

[Yair]

Elves are Epic... or not

I completely agree. But I don't think giving NPCs XP is the answer.

Once you start granting XP to NPCs you totally wreck the normal D&D demographics. It's just not a standard D&D world whre everyone city guard is at level 3+ and the elderly are at level 6. Suddenly, those first level characters look pretty pathetic, more likely to take on rat infestations the high-level commoners don't want to bother with... it can be done, but it's a different world.
And then there are elves. In such a campaign, Elves are Epic. Just about every elf is high-level, and their elders are epic - they must be, if you're using the same XP generating rules for humans and elves, even taking into account lower progression due to being careful. Elves must see humans as pitiful creatures, never fully maturing into a mature elf's power. Only the rare epic level human is accepted, with some surpirse, as equal. This again is possible, but it's just not standard D&D.
The same problem applies to other long-lived races, of course, but to a lesser degree.
And don't get me started on immortal races such as Elan. Or liches. Ouch.

I suggest instead to wing it. Decide what you want your world to look like, and then set up the rules that will make it happen (however "nonsensical" they are), if needed. Use the rules, don't let the rules use you.

As a suggestion, base magic item creation on the Spellcraft skill working like the Craft skill. With DC 20 to make any magic item, this means Check x 10 gp/week in market price is produced - making magic items is hence a laborious time consuming work in-line with their actual price, fully integrated into the economy. If you use such a mechanic, you may want to increase the productivity to allow faster item creation (and higher wages for magical artisans) and allow for several contributions to the work (allowing people to work together to speed up production).
You are then left to determine how craftsmen in general are spread in levels, negating the magic-item problems and XP.