Experience with Jedi

[Brother Shatterstone]

How have Jedi functioned in your SWRPG games?

I've played three or four different Jedi and I agree with what AMG said. They’re very balanced against the other classes in SW but this is also one of my biggest complaints with the class.

It’s very rare for my Jedi to ever use force powers because I need the VPs to take the damage for them but at the same time being able to store more FP than the rest of the classes is a worthy skill.

So don’t get me wrong they are a fun class to play and challenging class to roleplay, at least if done right, but they don’t dominate the game like you see in the movies. (for better or for worse.)

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Sounds like Jedi are very good at only a few things, which is the way it should be. people do keep mentioning that Jedi only rule in melee combat, as if it's a difficult thing for a Jedi to get into melee. With the Speed feats eratta-ed to free actions, a Jedi character can easily close to melee distance, no matter how far their opponent may be. Have you changed these feats in any way. My first inclination is to add a bonus to speed rather a multiplier.

Burst of Speed has a very small effect when you have to give up a Move Action to deflect ranged attacks. And grenades are even more dangerous, as those CAN'T be deflected.

As for starting Jedi with other classes...I stick to the book's ruling with the Rebellion Era. No Jedi starting out then. I've run a KotOR game with all Jedi, a few Rebellion Era games with a couple Jedi, and a large amount of post-RotJ games with a mix of the two.

Honestly, I personally prefer a character to start out as something else, as you really get the whole growing into the Jedi feel with the game. Sadly, I don't get to play that much...always running games and can't get myself to stop.

 

[drothgery]

I've played three or four different Jedi and I agree with what AMG said. They’re very balanced against the other classes in SW but this is also one of my biggest complaints with the class.

"The books/movies weren't balanced" seems to be a pretty common knock on d20 RPGs based on popular fiction (or at least, in Star Wars and Wheel of Time, which I care about). I don't really get it, though; standard d20 games have a mechanicsm for making a character substantially powerful than other characters -- you make that character higher level than the others. If a Jedi's supposed to be a member of a party of equals, he can't be (much) more equal than the others.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

"The books/movies weren't balanced" seems to be a pretty common knock on d20 RPGs based on popular fiction (or at least, in Star Wars and Wheel of Time, which I care about).

As I said:

So don’t get me wrong they are a fun class to play and challenging class to roleplay, at least if done right, but they don’t dominate the game like you see in the movies. (for better or for worse.)

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

To the Burst of Speed comments:

I reread that section a few times. Activating the feat is a free action, if the character has taken no other actions in the round (other than other free actions). The only options then available to the character are Move, Disengage, and Run there-after.

To me, it means that a Jedi can't use Burst Of Speed the round after he's used Deflect (because he's spent a Move action that round from deflecting earlier) and that a Jedi can only make movement type actions when he has BoS active. So for that massive movement, the Jedi gives up the ability to increase his defense/attack defensively the round before with Deflect, and gives up the ability to attack in the round he uses the movement. He can certainly run up to a blaster-using foe (as they can't make AoOs) and could even literally run circles around them, but he won't get an attack in until the next round unless the foe he's standing next to makes a move that provokes. The foe can then take a 2m step and open fire on his own turn.

It's a very effective feat, and lets those Jedi close the distance to a ranged attacker with amazing ease ... especially if you use the alternate Jump rules in the Jedi Counseling articles which let a Jedi make amazing leaps (apparently still as part of a move action) by adding their Move Object ranks to their Jump roll and multiplying by 3 (for 2vp).

Of course activating Burst of Speed and Force-Assist Jump-ing across a chasm to get to the sniper up there in a single round does cost 7vp. Still less than the average blaster-pistol shot, and certainly less than most blaster rifles. A land mine between the Jedi and the sniper could definately make things interesting. So could two friends with Ready Actions to blast the Jedi when he's jumping across the chasm. If he's taking a Run action he'll lose his Dex bonus to defense AND any Dodge bonuses (which go if you lose your Dex for any reason).

Jedi will demand some new tactics on both sides ... and I've developed some new tactics from the Jedi that I've been applying to my D&D characters. Charging with full Expertise, delaying actions with Expertiese and Fight Defensively, etc.

Fighting jedi with ranged weapons, I think Readied Actions will be very useful. Traps. Firing weapons from vehicles. Mooks with good defense and melee weapons running interference to guard higher-level fellows with ranged weapons, etc. (Especially when you've got enough levels for the mooks or at least one mid-level mook to have Spring Attack. If he's not standing and fighting in front of the Jedi, the Jedi can't use Deflect and still move and attack him.)

--fje

 

[arkham618]

After playing both incarnations of of Star Wars the D20 system handles Jedi the best. I have had a mixed group and the jedi are pretty powerful WHEN they get into melee. Usally you get a few shot off on them before they hit.

Lately, I've been using a homebrew system adapted from the TrueD20 (Blue Rose) ruleset. Force powers are handled like Arcana: there are three categories of Force skills (Neutral, Light, and Dark), each with a prerequisite feat (Force-Sensitive, Jedi Training, and Sith Training, respectively). The skills are broadly defined, permitting a lot of creativity in how characters utilize the Force. Most Force powers induce fatigue, however, which serves to limit frequency of use. In this system, Jedi dominate in melee -- as they should. But they get torn to pieces in ranged combat whenever the non-Jedi have time to coordinate a defense.

If anyone's curious, the Force powers I use are:

Absorb (Light): Utilize directed Force energy to invigorate self.
Drain (Dark): Sap vitality from a living creature via the Force.
Grip (Dark): Crush an opponent's innards using the Force.
Heal (Light): Draw on the Force to overcome injury and illness.
Jump (Neutral): Leap great distances using the Force.
Lightning (Dark): Project blasts of raw Force energy.
Link (Light): Contact other minds via the Force.
Protect (Light): Erect a defensive barrier of Force energy.
Rage (Dark): Draw on the Force to boost strength and agility.
Rape (Dark): Siphon Force energy from a living creature.
Scream (Dark): Utter a terrifying battlecry resonant with the Force.
Sense (Neutral): Extend native senses using the Force.
Shield (Neutral): Negate directed Force energy.
Shift (Neutral): Move objects using the Force.
Speed (Neutral): Achieve great speeds using the Force.
Sunder (Light): Weaken a living creature's connection to the Force.
Trick (Light): Influence susceptible minds via the Force.
Veil (Neutral): Mask one's Force aura in order to avoid detection.

 

[scourger]

Here's my experience with Jedi.

Our first SW d20 RPG was set in the Rebellion Era. We started at 1st level. So, there were no jedi. I really wanted to play a jedi, but I had to go through a couple of characters until the group got high enough level. I thought the trandoshan multiclass soldier/jedi was a good build, but he got wasted the first time I played him. The other sometime jedi aspirant, a wookie Scoundrel/Force Adept, decided not to corss over as he "didn't get enough out of it" (this from our resident number-cruncher; more from him later). My problem with the game is that it was really "D&D in Space". We mostly flew around, killed other beings, and took their stuff. I didn't really care for it. I think that game was put on hold at around 5th-6th level. I'm not really sure because I wasn't there for the last "looting" session since my character died an ignoble death, betrayed by the Dark Side of the non-revised rules (we were supposed to switch, but it turned out that I was the only one who did so).

Next, I incorporated jedi in my current D&D campaign. They don't get a defense bonus, but they get Force Vitality. They fell like any other PC at first, but now at around 5th-6th level the jedi guardian is pretty powerful. Still, a good foe can have him in as much danger as anyone and more if he gets into melee where he should be.

I also play an all-jedi game with the afore-mentioned number-cruncher. It wasn't designed as all-jedi, but it's set at 9th level; and he determined that he could get the most bang for his buck as a 9th level jedi character. We play 2 PCs each, so one of his has a couple of levels of scoundrel so that his other can be a jedi master with the requisite padawan learner. Of course, neither of his characters look like jedi; even though we are in the Republic Era. One looks like a spacer with a thermal detonator and the other looks like a pilot with 2 guns. Since I wanted to play jedi, I made a human consular as a fmaous diplomat and a trandoshan guardian as his bodyguard. The consular has Sunder, which is just too cool not to have. I wish the guardian had it, too; but I took Great Cleave instead. I think all the PCs have Burst of Speed and Heroic Surge. We haven't been at a loss in any encounter so far, including negotiation, space fighting, and a boarding action with very brief lightsabers vs. blasters action.

So, there it is. My advice to you would be to decide what kind of game you want to run and then define the PC options. I do it as a DM, and I'm getting better about it as a player. Time is just too short to run or play games you don't like.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Burst of Speed has a very small effect when you have to give up a Move Action to deflect ranged attacks. And grenades are even more dangerous, as those CAN'T be deflected.

Worse, is the stun grenade.

Watch the Jedi make his save, and *still* be stunned, and drop his lightsaber. *Then* you open up on him with the autofire weapons; even if he has Block, he's still easier to hit and can't bounce them back at you.

Now, when someone tosses a regular grenade at the Jedi's feet afterward, to destroy the lightsaber, that's just plain rude.

Brad

 

[humble minion]

Worse, is the stun grenade.

Watch the Jedi make his save, and *still* be stunned, and drop his lightsaber. *Then* you open up on him with the autofire weapons; even if he has Block, he's still easier to hit and can't bounce them back at you.

Now, when someone tosses a regular grenade at the Jedi's feet afterward, to destroy the lightsaber, that's just plain rude.

Brad

Whoever wrote and playtested the stun rules in d20 Star Wars should `be beaten about the head with a wet skunk, then have their game-writing license revoked effective immediately. Not that i'm convinced any playtesting at all went on for characters above about 6th level, but that's a rant for another day...

Normally I harbour a deep and passionate hate for game companies that release much-hyped 'new editions' of the rules within a year or two of the previous much-hyped edition, but if WotC were to give us a new Star wars book that fixed stun damage, attack/defense imbalance, vehicle combat, and piddlingly easy skill check DCs, I'd praise them aloud to the skies.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Whoever wrote and playtested the stun rules in d20 Star Wars should `be beaten about the head with a wet skunk, then have their game-writing license revoked effective immediately.

The stun rules are pretty heinous indeed, but I alleviate the problem as much as I can by making things like stun grenades extremely difficult to get due to military restrictions. Even on the black market, where they are still rare but obtainable the prices are prohibitive. Even if the PCs get their hands (or other appendages, in the case of the more alien races) on some stun grenades, it's not exactly easy to go around packing 'nades in any sort of urban setting and HIGHLY frowned upon when one starts hucking pineapples at random baddies in said areas. Houseruling the stun setting to use much more energy from a clip (due to a wide dispersal of a mass of energy capable of temporarily shutting down the nervous system of most targets at range) may help cut down on stun setting usage on weapons that have the capability as well.