D&D (2024) Expert Classes - Rules Glossary

[fluffybunbunkittens]

So, under the new hiding rule, what's stopping a plate wearing, 8 dex, non-stealth proficient character from attempting to hide over and over out of combat until they succeed?

What was stopping them from previously repeat-rolling until they roll a 20 on their stealth and can proudly tell the GM 'hey, use that as my stealth score'?

 

[Charlaquin]

I just realized, we finally get an actual Hidden condition listed.

Except the way it’s written seems entirely binary. You’re either Hidden (from everything) or not (from anything). No more room for being hidden from particular creatures and not from others.

 

[Olrox17]

What was stopping them from previously repeat-rolling until they roll a 20 on their stealth and can proudly tell the GM 'hey, use that as my stealth score'?

In my games, the fact that you didn't actually roll the stealth check until someone was in range of detection. Plus, there was no gameplay incentive for farming natural 1s.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

So, under the new hiding rule, what's stopping a plate wearing, 8 dex, non-stealth proficient character from attempting to hide over and over out of combat until they succeed? A DC 15 isn't that hard to beat if you have a couple minutes to spare.
Hey, could even be a good way to farm natural 1s for that sweet inspiration reward.

What is unreasonable about this? Is it not reasonable for an armoured person to be hidden in cover in ambush? As long as they are not moving.
It does make Pass without trace more valuable as now it is highly the group will succeed in the basic hide DC but the Detection DC for some party members could still be low. So, moving into ambush with a fighter/paladin is viable but not guaranteed and there is still a reasonable chance that the fighter will be detected by the NPC but the stealthy guys will still get surprise.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Except the way it’s written seems entirely binary. You’re either Hidden (from everything) or not (from anything). No more room for being hidden from particular creatures and not from others.

Until they try to look for you.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Pass Without Trace was the usual method for supremacy, because +10 covers a LOT of ground when only half the group has to succeed in a group check, anyway. And the reward was a full surprise round of the enemy doing nothing. Now your reward is advantage on initiative, which is a lot more balanced.

So this change, also, is a nerf to the Ranger.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

So, moving into ambush with a fighter/paladin is viable but not guaranteed and there is still a reasonable chance that the fighter will be detected by the NPC but the stealthy guys will still get surprise.

By the rules, that's a group check, so they are all detected or none of them are.

Ofc, sometimes it's nice to intentionally go against the rules and go with individual rolls like 'okay, people who succeeded, pick where you are on the fighty map and automatically go first', when all that is at stake is everyone's initial combat positioning.

 

[Charlaquin]

Until they try to look for you.

And if they succeed, you cease being Hidden, which under this wording means you’re not hidden from anything.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

By the rules, that's a group check, so they are all detected or none of them are.

That is arguable as the DM decides when a group check is appropriate. I would not be inclined to make an attempt to sneak to contact a group check as that would penalise the stealth characters (YMMV), on the other hand, if the party is trying to evade and keep their distance, I would allow a group check.

Ofc, sometimes it's nice to intentionally go against the rules and go with individual rolls like 'okay, people who succeeded, pick where you are on the fighty map and automatically go first', when all that is at stake is everyone's initial combat positioning.

I think there is enough leeway for both points of view.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

And if they succeed, you cease being Hidden, which under this wording means you’re not hidden from anything.

I think you are technically correct and if I remember, I will comment on it on the survey because I think that is extreme and narratively unsatisfactory.