Expertise question

[gamecat]

Do you HAVE to attack to use expertise? I understand it as you can take the penalty, but it would lock in and apply to any A'sofO you may make until your next action, where you can adjust your penalty.

*breathes out slowly*

 

[Crothian]

You have to take an attack action. Now, I see no reason why you can't not attack with an attack action. I think it matters more of what your trying to do......

 

[gamecat]

But I see expertise as watching your back to the point of exclusions of offense... Dontcha think?

 

[Crothian]

To a point. You can't go full defensive and use Expertise. With Expertise you are sacrificing your attack ability for defense, but you still have to be able to attack.

Personally, I see the question as vague and leading. A lot of people have specific cases in mind, but they try to generalize the question too much. Is there a specific situation that brought this up?

 

[gamecat]

I'm a melee mage and I don't wanna lose any of my 21 (count'em!) hps. Just frugalness with feats.

 

[gamecat]

I'm a melee mage and I don't wanna lose any of my 21 (count'em!) hps. Just frugalness with feats. Any good melee mage combos?

 

[Crothian]

That makes sense. If you use Expertise, I don't think you have to attack, but I know you can't do anything else. You couldn't cast a spell and use Expertise for instance. Well, maybe if it was a touch spell that requires an attack roll, I'm unclear on that.

 

[the Jester]

You don't have to attack but you have to take an attack action, which is a standard action, so you can only take another single move-equivelent action that round.

You can't ready an action, cast a spell, etc. when you're using expertise. If you have an active touch spell (holding the charge) you can use it as an attack of opportunity if you get the chance, though.

 

[Henrix]

While you can (attempt to) touch an enemy as part of casting a touch spell, it is still a Cast Spell action and not an Attack action, so you cannot use Expertise with it.

If you first cast a touch spell and then attempt to touch an enemy in a subsequent round, then the touch attack is an Attack action and you can use Expertise.

 

[RigaMortus]

You could also use "Aid Another" attack action. You just have to hit AC 10 (although it might be hard as a Wizard with minuses from Expertise) and your ally can get either a +2 to their AC or to damage (your choice) on their next attack. This will keep you out of combat and possibly help your ally. I believe this is a Standard Action so you still would only be able to move your base movement.

The great thing about this is that you do not have to be in melee combat with anyone, although your ally has to. You just need to be able to make a viable attack against them. So you could have a crossbow in your hand and use that to Aid your ally. Which brings up a question...

If you were to aid your ally using a ranged weapon, would it cost you ammo to do so? It could be a kin to firing a warning shot past the enemy (which would waste ammo) or it could be a kin to just pointing your crossbow at the enemy causing them to be more cautious of you which might be considered enough to aid your ally. I don't think the PHB goes into too many specifics of this.