Explain Magic: The Gathering

Zappo said:
The only thing that 3.X and MtG really have in common is the fact that they were designed in a rational, highly modular way, based on solid analysis. Obviously this results in some convergence, but I could draw parallels between, I dunno, 3.X and Windows XP by following this reasoning.

In a similiar highly modular way. And based not only on analysis, but on similiar analysis ... And I would draw parallels between windows 98 and XP ,,, wait, that's not what you said. Lol.

Interesting history bit there kenobi. Now I'd be interested in hearing if Talislanta had "similiar similiarities" (as I'm alleging between 3.X and MtG), or if indeed there is some further evidence that the two influenced each other. Of course, I can hardly see how they'd fail to do so. And it's not as if the influence that I'm suggesting hurt 3.X (far from it!).

And I don't think 3.X is *based* on MtG at all. Merely influenced. Much of the "evidence" is, I agree, based on viewpoint and opinion (and some on gossip from my game designer friends, which has even less acceptability as evidence due to it's third-hand nature.)
 

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Wayside said:
White Weenie was the strongest beatdown deck in Kamigawa, and since Mirrodin rotated out with the release of Ravnica it's become the strongest beatdown deck in Standard.

Interesting. I've seen some interesting white weeny decks... they just didn't cut it in the environment I was playing in.
 

ARandomGod said:
Interesting history bit there kenobi. Now I'd be interested in hearing if Talislanta had "similiar similiarities" (as I'm alleging between 3.X and MtG), or if indeed there is some further evidence that the two influenced each other.

I never played Talislanta, so I can't comment directly; while it's a fantasy RPG, I don't think it had much, if any, real thematic or game-design connection to either MtG or D&D.

As far as Talislanta vs. MtG: yes, they were published by the same company, but, as far as I can tell, were developed *completely* independently. Talislanta had already been in print for years before MtG came out (the 3rd edition of Talislanta has a 1992 publication date, a year before MtG).

I've never read anything to indicate that Richard Garfield (Magic's creator) was even a serious RPG player, much less an RPG designer. From what I remember of MtG's history, after his initial rebuff at WotC (IIRC, the game he'd originally proposed was RoboRally), he went off and designed MtG independently, then brought it back to WotC.

As far as Talislanta vs. 3E D&D...possible, I suppose, but, again, you need to keep the history in mind. Before MtG, WotC was a little, "Fred-in-the-shed" RPG publisher. When MtG exploded, WotC actually got *out* of the RPG business, to focus on CCGs -- as part of shutting down their RPG division, they sold off Talislanta. Within a year or so after that (IIRC), TSR had gone bankrupt, and WotC then got back into the RPG business by buying TSR.

(One other possible connection between Talislanta and D&D: Jonathan Tweet is listed as one of the primary designers of the 3rd edition Talislanta book...and he, of course, was one of the primary designers of 3E D&D.)

(Edit: I found reviews of 2nd and 3rd Edition Talislanta on rpg.net. Mechanically, it does sound like Talislanta might have some connections to 3E D&D, focusing on the d20 mechanic. Thematically, the game sounds fairly different from either D&D or MtG.

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_4014.html
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_1416.html )
 
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DreadPirateMurphy said:
I'm not sure where to ask this, so forgive me if there is another forum for this.

Without going into large amounts of detail, can somebody explain how to play Magic: The Gathering? I'm just curious, since it seems like a fairly expensive hobby, even compared to RPGs.


To make is simple, It's Chess with cards.

To explain how to play the game could be rather long (as ye may have seen so far). So here's a 3 step overview.

1) Each player starts with 20 life, the first to reach 0 loses, although there are other ways to lose too.

2) 1/3 of your cards are land which are used to play the cards that will kill/disable yer opponent.

3) You can only lay one land/turn*, and since each playing card has a different cost, you more or less have to pick and choose what you play and when. Always think 3 turns ahead.


Now what was explained was just the Basic Basic Base of the game, it's very flexable and you can do alot depending on your strategy. It doesn't have to be expensive either. The cost it would take to get a couple of D&D books would give you a decent variety of cards to use. However if you're the easily addicted type you may have to control yourself cause it's easy to go Hogwild.
 

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
That's also a good point.

In earlier editions, there were rare cards like "Goblin King."

He granted bonuses to every goblin you had in play. The trick is that the Goblin King was creature type "Lord." So, a Goblin King didn't grant bonuses to himself - you needed actual goblin cards (usually commons) in order to make the rare Goblin King useful.

The same trend continues.
Although I seem to recall hearing in the latest oracle text for the Goblin King, he is now a goblin. I must admit I haven't checked.

EDIT: D'oh, scooped ages ago.


glass.
 
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I'll just come by to say that I got back into Magic after more than 10 years of absence from the game (I started playing in the early 90s). The reason: The Kamigava block (Champions of Kamigawa, Betrayers of Kamigawa and Saviors of Kamigawa).

Ditto here.
Sure, I bought a very few odds and ends since Homelands, but Kamigawa was the block that really made me buy back into Magic in force. I really like the setting, and the nature of the block (Legendary creatures! Legendary Lands! Even Legendary Enchantments!) made me take notice.

As to decks?
I have a ton of decks ranging from good to mediocre to pretty-darn-stupid. (Probably about 20 or so see common rotation.)

I have a "Block" Mirrodin Deck focusing on Modular Creatures, a "Block" Kamigawa set focusing on Kitsune Clerics. I have a "Door-to-Nothingness" deck, which doesn't work really well, but when it does, the reactions are priceless. I have a "Reanimator" deck featuring Ichorids and Grave-Pacts.

I have tons of creature-themed decks (Dragons, Slivers, Goblins, Fairies, Squirrels, and even Elephants!)

Of course, I follow the "Rule of 4", but other than that, I put in whatever cards I have, since I'm a casual player, not a tournament player.
 

DreadPirateMurphy said:
Thanks again. A few more:

How long do games last? Is there a time limit?
In a tournament, a full match usually has a time limit of 50 minutes plus five turns (when time runs out, the "active" player finishes his turn. Then the other guy takes one, first guy, other guy, first guy, other guy). A match consists of 2-3 games (best of three). You can also modify your deck slightly between games in a match - in addition to the 60+ cards that make up your main deck, you may also have a sideboard of exactly 15 cards. Between games, you may trade out cards from your main deck for ones in your your sideboard on a one-for-one basis. However, you must return your deck to its starting condition before every match.

How are the cards randomized? How do you keep somebody from manipulating the order of the cards?
Shuffling. You are also entitled to shuffle your opponent's deck, though most people just cut the opponent's deck instead of shuffling it unless they suspect there's something funny going on.

Are the cards in one player's deck kept secret from the opponent?
Unless there's something that lets you look at it, yes.

Maybe I missed this, but are silver and gold cards (uncommon/rare) more powerful? Is there a limit on the number of silver and gold cards in a deck, percentage-wise? How do you "maintain balance?" Could I have a deck made up only of rares?
Powerful cards tend to be rares, but not all rares are powerful. Some cards are made rare because they are complex. Others because they are highly situational. Some because they suck (there's one card, One With Nothing, whose only effect is that the one casting it discards his hand). Some because their effect would be very dominating in Limited games (Sealed deck or draft, where you design your deck from cards you get at the tournament).

Can you continue to use any of the sets in current tournaments?
No.

There are multiple types of constructed tournaments, or "formats". In order from most permissive to least permissive, they are:

Vintage (aka Type 1): This format allows pretty much any card, except those that somehow are based on physical manipulation (for example, one of the early sets had "Chaos Orb", which let you drop the card from a certain height onto the board, killing any card it touched when it landed) or ante (in the original game rules, you were supposed to ante one card from your deck before a game, with the winner getting the loser's card). It also has an extensive list of cards that are "restricted", meaning you can only play one of each.

Legacy (aka Type 1.5): This is similar to Vintage, in that it allows all sets. However, instead of a restricted list, it has a list of cards that aren't allowed at all ("banned"). The banned list was originally the same as the Vintage restricted list, but nowadays it has a list that's all separate. This is because some of the cards on the Vintage restricted list are mostly there because they make it easy to get another card on the restricted list, but if those cards aren't a problem to begin with there's no need to restrict the "accessory" cards (example: There's a very powerful land card named Tolarian Academy that can provide silly amounts of mana. This card is restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy. Since you can have one of them in your deck in Vintage, any card that says "search your deck for any land card" also has to be restricted, or Tolarian Academy would still be too easy to get. However, since Tolarian Academy doesn't exist in Legacy, there's no need to restrict all those land-searchers).

Extended (aka Type 1.x): This is the first format that excludes entire sets. Currently, Extended allows cards from these "Blocks" (a block consists of one "big" expansion, usually released in the fall, plus two "small" expansion released in the following winter and summer - October, February, and June): Invasion (with Planeshift and Apocalypse), Odyssey (with Torment and Judgment), Onslaught (with Legions and Scourge), Mirrodin (with Darksteel and Fifth Dawn), Champions of Kamigawa (with Betrayers of Kamigawa and Saviors of Kamigawa), and Ravnica (no small sets yet). It also allows the core sets released during the time these blocks were released: 7th, 8th, and 9th edition. There's a banned list for Extended too, but it's much smaller than the list for Legacy. Extended keeps getting modified: every time a new set comes out, it is added to the list, and every three years the older sets get "rotated" out. The format rotated this year, so in three years it will rotate again, allowing the sets from Mirrodin forward.

Standard (aka Type 2): This format allows the last two blocks plus the current core set. Currently, this is Champions of Kamigawa, Ravnica, and 9th edition. There is a small banned list, but I'm not sure if it currently has any cards on it (it had a bunch of Mirrodin cards, but those just rotated out).

Block Constructed: This format only allows one block, usually the latest. Also has a banned list, which is currently empty (at least for Ravnica, past blocks retain their banned lists).

There are also some sets that aren't allowed in any tournament: Unglued and Unhinged. These two are "joke" sets, containing cards with abilities such as Denimwalk (can't be blocked if opponent is wearing any clothing made of denim). These are marked with silver borders (as opposed to the black or white borders of expansions and core sets), with the exception of the basic land cards from these sets (which are legal, since they're the same lands as in any other set, just looking a little differently).
 

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