D&D 5E Explain: Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse

[Reynard]

Oh. I agree. Any version of "your turn is wasted" or "lose a turn" are all terrible mechanics and should be stripped from the game and killed with fire. Unfortunately, that's a basic and assumed part of the game for many.

I am curious if you feel this way in regards to other kinds of games, since many, many game designs include ways to undo the turn of or skip other players' turns.

 

[Morrus]

I am curious if you feel this way in regards to other kinds of games, since many, many game designs include ways to undo the turn of or skip other players' turns.

I also find it unfulfilling.

 

[Oofta]

The problem I have with counterspell is that not only does it waste your turn, it also burns limited resources. As a player I hate it because attrition of resources wasted on accomplishing nothing is not fun. As a DM it's because if you have more than 1 PC that can cast counterspell enemy spell casters are completely pointless 90% of the time.

Some kind of spell duel system could be interesting. Counterspell isn't it.

 

[Charlaquin]

The problem isn't with the stat blocks as written, it's with the wording of counterspell. As written, counterspell doesn't effect these new abilities. Unless WotC erratas that or releases a Sage Advice on it. Or updates it in 5.5.

Yeah, that’s the thing; the book doesn’t really need to explicitly confirm that an ability that isn’t a spell isn’t affected by abilities that only affect spells. That’s just how those rules interact with each other. The reason this needed confirmation from the devs is that it seems counterintuitive that they would intentionally take things that used to be affected by counterspell and such, and make them no longer able to be affected by them.

 

[Reynard]

The problem I have with counterspell is that not only does it waste your turn, it also burns limited resources. As a player I hate it because attrition of resources wasted on accomplishing nothing is not fun. As a DM it's because if you have more than 1 PC that can cast counterspell enemy spell casters are completely pointless 90% of the time.

Some kind of spell duel system could be interesting. Counterspell isn't it.

It's not wasted if it avoids the fireball or dominate that would have occurred. Tactically speaking, a block can be just as or more valuable than a punch.

That said, I totally agree with the assessment that counterspell in particular is a boring mechanic. But generally speaking D&D magis is boring: it is rote and predictable and despite a huge number of spells has very few "good" options for any given situation.

 

[Charlaquin]

But wouldn't the designers know it might be an issue? Why not answer the question in the actual text.

"Spell Like Abilities: These abilities are considered spells for the purpose of counterspell, dispel and anti-magic shell. If the level of the spell must be determined, use CR/2." Or whatever the appropriate mechanics would be (I'm just making stuff up off the top of my head). My point is: why isn't this information in the book that introduces the new mechanics?

I mean. That would be appropriate if the intent was for these abilities to be able to be affected as if they were spells. Since that is seemingly not the intent, such a rule isn’t necessary.

 

[Reynard]

I mean. That would be appropriate if the intent was for these abilities to be able to be affected as if they were spells. Since that is seemingly not the intent, such a rule isn’t necessary.

Clarification is necessary regardless.

 

[Charlaquin]

Clarification is necessary regardless.

I agree, but if the intent is for these abilities not to count as spells, the text does correctly convey that, so a simple statement in something like Sage Advice is sufficient to clarify if that is indeed the design intent, in my view.

 

[Parmandur]

What is it? Who is it for? Why should someone who has Volos and Tome of Foes purchase this? How is the information different than those previous books?

NOTE: the purpose of this thread is to be purely informational. There are other threads for different kinds of arguments regarding this book. All I am looking to do here is create a concise repository of basic facts that can help people (like, but not limited to, me) decide whether to buy this book. Thanks for your cooperation!

It's most of the Monsters fr those two books, rewritten for new Stat block standards and without the Lore sections. Also, a bunch of playable races from across 5E, with revised and less problematic abilities and lore.

It's basically the Monster Manual 2, but not particularly of use to people who have those two other books unless you want the art and revisions

 

[pukunui]

Clarification is necessary regardless.

Perhaps, but it would appear you won't be getting it from us. You'll have to try asking Jeremy Crawford et al directly.